I propose that we gather next year in Columbus, Ohio. I would be proud and honored to be the hometown coordinator for the event.

Now, if you are interested in coming to Columbus sometime next year, let me know what time of year would be best for you all to travel and we'll begin to narrow down a date. With this much advance notice, we should be able to work out a good time for the largest group of people possible.

Wonderful. It sounds an excellent idea to me - maybe a little later than it was this year - early May would be ideal for us as we will need to be back for the ITT Convention, which will probably be in early June, although it's not yet been finalised.

Of course, we'd have to find a way to get there that doesn't involve rail since Columbus's Union Station was demolished in 1979 :-(

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Richard English,

JUNE! Then I could visit QSDS on the same trip. I'm not being selfish or anything... lol

Seriously this is just great. And could we please go visit the Air Force Museum. I've been there twice and still didn't see everything. Oh, and the gardens, oh those gardens. Also, there is that bead store, and of course that fabric store.

Whee! Columbus. yay!

However, you are going to HAVE to contact Amtrak and tell them to divert a train there just for us.

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However, you are going to HAVE to contact Amtrak and tell them to divert a train there just for us. Smile

They'd need to do more than that - they'd have to build the track and station ;-(

Such a shame about the USA's railways - such a wonderful network at one time and now just a stump - and much of what's left is now freight only. It's not much of a consolation to realise that Canada's are even worse.

I don't know what's happening in the USA, but in the UK rail travel is growing year on year and is now back to levels last seen in the 1960s. Fortunately we didn't close quite such a high proportion of our lines and, indeed, more are now being built as I write.

Early June might be OK for me - but that's subject to the dates of the ITT Conference. This year we were away by 02 June.

Ok... late June was what I was thinking. Right about now. But that's just my selfish wish to drop in on something that isn't all that important.

Now, on a political note, we have had a series of administrations in the US that care more for the auto industry and for freight shipping than they do for passenger rail. Airlines get more government attention and assistance than passenger rail does. This is not only on a national basis, but on a local one. Light rail is a great way to move large numbers of people efficiently through a major metropolitan area, yet most of our major cities do not have good rail. Los Angeles was/is a case in point. They built a very expensive rail system, but only around the edges of the city, making it pretty much useless to the majority of commuters.

Rail in America is seen as a way to move freight: tons of consumer goods being delivered to consumers who already have too damn much.

(ok; off my soapbox; sorry)

As a commuter, one of my main complaints is that the transport companies insist on cramming as many of us as possible on to their buses and trains with no regard for comfort. London buses, for example, can take around the same number of seated passengers as they did fifty years ago. However, the buses are much larger, and they now take an extra twenty or so standing passengers.

A couple of years ago, my local rail company introduced brand new rolling stock on my line. The old stock had five seated abreast (2 + 3, with a central aisle) but the new has only four. This leaves more room for people to stand, and is cited by them as an improvement!

So, instead of each carriage taking (say) 120 people, 100 sitting in relative comfort and 20 standing, they now take (say) 140, 80 sitting and 60 standing.

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As a commuter, one of my main complaints is that the transport companies insist on cramming as many of us as possible on to their buses and trains with no regard for comfort.

In fact that's not really true. People cram themselves onto the vehicles; they are not forced to get on (as is the case with cattle, with whom commuters are so often compared).

People choose to work in such a way as to need to commute at peak times. That is their choice and I exercised my own choice many years ago and opted out of commuting. Now, if I take the train I usually do so out of the rush hour, when it is a perfectly comfortable way to travel.

Public transport of any type, anywhere, is usually overloaded at peak times and any increase in capacity is soon swallowed up by increase in demand. London's public transport presently carries about 8 million people every day, most of them travelling in the rush hour; it's an amazing achievement that delays are the exception rather than the rule.

By the way, Arnie, I do hope you'll be able to make the 2008 gathering.

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Light rail is a great way to move large numbers of people efficiently through a major metropolitan area, yet most of our major cities do not have good rail.

Absolutely. And what happened in the USA was that the automobile companies bought out the trolley (light rail) companies in many cities and then simply closed them down.

We had light rail networks (trams) in many UK cities and they, too, were mainly closed down in the 1950s (although this wasn't a road transport industry buyout situation as most of the tram services were publicly owned).

Now many cities have had to re-invest in light rail services half a century on, at huge expense, when they'd have been far better served had they just kept the old trams and just updated them as and when it was necessary.

I am reminded of an old joke.

A teacher asks a pupil a question, who after answering correctly, is told: "No, you're right." In a word pedagogy. It must be a small comfort to us all that no matter what we say or think, we're wrong.

Richard.

You are talking nonsense. You may be able to afford to travel when you feel like it, or not at all. There is no such choice open to the vast majority of commuters.

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You are talking nonsense. You may be able to afford to travel when you feel like it, or not at all. There is no such choice open to the vast majority of commuters.

Nobody has to work in any particular job - not in a wealthy country like ours. Nobody is forced to commute.

You have chosen your career and place of work - you have the right to change it if you wish. And so do all other commuters. It obviously suits you to work where you do, in the job you choose, and your judgement presumably is that the job is worth the commuting. I had my share of commuting and decided that, good though the job was, I wasn't going to put up with the hassle of commuting and I found a job locally. It paid me less and I was worse off, even allowing for the lower travel costs. But my quality of life was better and I decided that the loss in earnings was amply compensated for by the lower degree of stress.

You may have decided differently but it is your decision. Nobody is forcing you to do the job you do. You could leave tomorrow and get another job - and need never commute again.

You could even do as I have done and become self-employed. Then you have even more choice about what you do and where you do it. Of course, you also have to forgo such things as a regular salary, and paid holidays. And I can promise you that there were times when I stayed awake for hours wondering how I was going to pay the household bills; that I can now afford the luxury of choosing when and where I work is the result of a great deal of hard work. But I made my choice and stuck with it. You have the same choice as did I and only you can make it.

Yes. Why didn't I see that? Instead of having to catch hideously overcrowded metros to get to my classes in time to teach I have the right to starve. It's all so clear now. Of course I could continue teaching if only someone would build a college on the wasteground at the end of my street.

Sorry for the sarcasm but even by recent standards, Richard, that's just utter self-deluded, nonsense.

As is Arnie, you are making the assumption that the only job you can do is the one you are now doing.

You, too, could leave tomorrow and get another job or even work for yourself. Of course, you might not get such congenial employment or such a well-paid job. But leave you could and employment you could find. You commute to the job you do because the job is worth enough for you to put up with the commuting hassle.

And that is true of most who commute to work. If they were honest with themselves they would admit that they won't change their job because, in truth, commuting's not all that bad and the job's better than anything else they could get locally. So they decide to continue commuting rather than change. Of course, as do all commuters, they moan like anything about the rotten public transport - but if it were really as bad as they all claim they'd not put up with it.

To me the daily commuting grind was so bad that I elected to get a job locally - and that choice is open to all. It is not "...utter self-deluded, nonsense..." I am speaking of something I did and there's nothing stopping you, or anyone else, of taking the same chances that I took. In a free-market economy you have the right to try to sell your labour wherever you wish.

There are times Richard recently when you are really beginning to annoy me. Did I say self-deluded. Sorry. I meant sanctimonious.

OH my...
Back to topic?
Columbus sounds great.

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Did I say self-deluded. Sorry. I meant sanctimonious.

That is probably more accurate.

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Columbus sounds great

Excellent. Now we need to agree on a date and we can start making plans.

I will be crossing the Atlantic at least once in 2008 in any case but it would be nice to be able to combine several different activities in just the one crossing.

probably more accurate

Erm—you mean sanctimonious, as in "[f]eigning piety or righteousness: a solemn, unsmiling, sanctimonious old iceberg that looked like he was waiting for a vacancy in the Trinity (Mark Twain)"?—well, OK then.

We have a few vague date ranges suggested, then - May and June. Who else would like to weigh in on the discussion of when to get together in Columbus next year?

Bob? Arnie? Kalleh and Shu?

Shu and Kalleh are definitely in...as long as the date works (I'll check my calendar tomorrow). We are also happy to help in any way, CW. How fun! Columbus is a great city, full of books, and there is much to do. Thank you for taking the lead in this, CW.

Richard, let's drop the everyone-has-a-choice-of-where-he-wants-to-work talk, okay? Thanks!

It's always very hard for me to say as our academic calendar isn't published until September. May and June are unlikely though unless it coincides with half term in which case I'd possibly be able to make a day ot two, the problem then coming down to one of expense vs. short trip length and can I justify spending up to a grand on two days flying and a two day visit?

You should go ahead and plan without me and if I can fit in with the plan I will.

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Richard, let's drop the everyone-has-a-choice-of-where-he-wants-to-work talk, okay? Thanks!

I agree.

I have made my point, perfectly politely I suggest, and I will say no more on the topic - unless someone wishes to castigate me for my honestly held views.

I would prefer late June, but at this point have one unknown in my calendar for Summer 2008: a family reunion, which I am helping to organize, but which will be held at my brother's farm in Upstate New York. However, as he is getting married this weekend, my co-conspirator cousins and I who are organizing the event thought we'd let the newlyweds get settled in for a couple of weeks before we started bombarding them with questions about which 2008 summer weekend we will hold that reunion. So, if the two events happen to collide, it'll be "Goodbye Columbus" for me.

But late June is always best with my work schedule--end of fiscal year, lots of projects finished, big cats away using up their vacation time.

Wordmatic

My June is wide open...but, Bob, I'd really like you to come! Columbus is the home of books! Would the summer be possible? Could you name a few dates?

It's literally impossible for me to even suggest dates until our term calendar is published in August or September. The only extended periods of holiday that I get are the Easter break, the Christmas break and the Summer break. The last one is usually out because I'm working Summer school. If I come during that break it doesn't cost me just the six or seven hundred travelling expenses there's also £2000 in lost earnings. There are the three half term breaks but they are a week each and run into the two days flying, two days visit problem. I don't know what to suggest. Naturally I'd love to visit but in practical terms I'm restricted to Easter and Christmas.

Well, let's wait until your schedule co