Bear with me here. This will be just a bit long-winded. (Should I say “Strolinesque? )

My wife and I are huge Gilbert & Sullivan fans. We’ve seen practically every public production put on here in Chicago for the last thirty years (and even some high school productions). And every time, I find some new subtlety, something clever that I hadn’t noticed before. This concerns one noticed last night, viewing Iolanthe.

The female and male choruses are cast as a troop of fairies and an assemblage of Lords of Parliament. At the end, the fairies confess to their queen that they have married the lords, in violation of fairy law.

CELIA We are all fairy duchesses, marchionesses, countesses, viscountesses, and baronesses.
LORD MOUNT. It’s our fault. They couldn’t help themselves.
QUEEN It seems they have helped themselves, and pretty freely, too!

A clever verbal play, on two meanings of the phrase “to help oneself”. The dialogue points out this wordplay, making it obvious, and I’d long known of it.

But last night I noticed another place where the same sort of double-meaning wordplay is not pointed out, and thus is more subtle. A lord asserts that “if there is an institution in Great Britain which is not susceptible of any improvement at all, it is the House of Peers!” I’d always taken this to mean, “The House of Peers is perfect, unimprovable.” But it could just as well mean the exact opposite: “The House of Peers is so utterly and hopelessly bad that any attempt to improve it would be futile.” Quite clever!

Now, my questions: What do you call such a wordplay? A wordplay is based on the double-meaning of a word is called a “pun”, but about one based on the double-meaning of a phrase?

Also: usually, one of a pun’s two senses merely echoes the sound of another word or word-sense, typically as used in familiar proverb or other cliché. Though by sound it reminds us of the cliché, the cliché meaning wouldn’t fit the meaning of the sentence. But in the two Iolanthe cases, both meanings make perfect sense. Is there any special name for this?

Isn't that the true embodiment of the phrase "double entendre"?

PS Note "susceptible of" as opposed to "susceptible to." It's a nice point. I don't know that I ever met it before.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: haberdasher,

A blonde walked into a bar and asked the barman for a "double entendre".

So he gave her one.

That bar was inside St James' Park, wasn't it?

Are you referring to St James' Park or St James's Park? St James' Park is a stadium in Newcastle upon Tyne, the home of Newcastle United Football Club. St James's Park is a park in Westminster, London, near Green Park, Hyde Park, and Kensington Gardens. Just to confuse matters, there's another football stadium called St James Park, which is the home ground of Exeter City Football Club.

quote:

Note "susceptible of" as opposed to "susceptible to." It's a nice point. I don't know that I ever met it before.

I think it is common in BrE to say 'opposite to' as an alternative to 'opposite of', the form normally found in AmE; is this usage reversed with 'susceptible of' and 'susceptible to'?

quote:

Originally posted by arnie:
Are you referring to St James' Park or St James's Park? St James' Park is a stadium in Newcastle upon Tyne, the home of Newcastle United Football Club. St James's Park is a park in Westminster, London, near Green Park, Hyde Park, and Kensington Gardens. Just to confuse matters, there's another football stadium called St James Park, which is the home ground of Exeter City Football Club.

I have the feeling that it's St James's Park. It doesn't seem likely that either stadium would be a place for trysting at night.

Finale, Act I
Lord Tolloller, aside to Phyllis:
I heard the minx remark
She'd meeet him after dark
Inside St James's Park
And give him one!