Wordcraft Home Page    Wordcraft Community Home Page    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  The Written Word    Excellent, if now obsolete, use of language
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Excellent, if now obsolete, use of language Login/Join
 
Member
posted
Home
About Lawfare: A Brief History of the Term and the Site
Contact
The Lawfare Podcast

How To Declare War (Anno Domini, 1429)

by Kenneth Anderson

Jhesus-Maria, King of England, and you, Duke of Bedford, who call yourself regent of the Kingdom of France, you, Guillaume de la Poule, count of Suffort, Jean, sire of Talbot, and you, Thomas, sire of Scales, who call yourselves lieutenants of the Duke of Bedford, acknowledge the summons of the King of Heaven. Render to the Maid here sent by God the King of Heaven, the keys of all the good towns which you have taken and violated in France. She is here come by God’s will to reclaim the blood royal. She is very ready to make peace, if you will acknowledge her to be right, provided that France you render, and pay for having held it. And you, archers, companions of war, men-at-arms and others who are before the town of Orleans, go away into your own country, by God. And if so be not done, expect news of the Maid who will come to see you shortly, to your very great injury. King of England, if you do not so, I am chief-in-war and in whatever place I attain your people in France, I will make them quit it willy-nilly. And if they will not obey, I will have them all slain; I am here sent by God, the King of Heaven, body for body, to drive you out of all France … (Written this Tuesday of Holy Week, March 22, 1429.)

Joan of Arc, the Maid of Orleans, sends a formal letter of summons to the English upon the siege of Orleans. (I post this once a year on this date at all the places I blog.)


RJA
 
Posts: 485 | Location: Westport CTReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Kalleh
posted Hide Post
Oh, thank you for that, Robert. Would you be willing to share your blog with us? Or do you mean on others' blogs?

Love the use of "willy-nilly."
 
Posts: 23300 | Location: Chicago, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of zmježd
posted Hide Post
I'm curious. Was the original letter of Jean d'Arc in English or French? In whichever language what does the original text look like? The orthography and letters? (AFAIK, La Pucelle was illiterate and spoke no English.) I ask because the language in this letter looks rather modern for something 15th century.


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
 
Posts: 5085 | Location: R'lyehReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I can't find an image of the original letter, but this appears to be the text of the original 15th century French, maybe?
 
Posts: 2370Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Guillaume de la Poule,

Chicken Willie? Confused Is he the chicken who crossed road whilst L'Alouette burned?


It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. -J. Krishnamurti
 
Posts: 4449 | Location: In a cornfield in central IndianaReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Kalleh
posted Hide Post
Here is a good discussion about willy-nilly.
quote:
There is an equivalent Latin phrase nolens volens, which is formed from two Latin participles that mean “unwilling, willing”. It is sometimes said that willy-nilly is actually a translation of the Latin phrase. It may have been an influence, but it’s hard to tell.
 
Posts: 23300 | Location: Chicago, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Kalleh:
Love the use of "willy-nilly."


In the original it's veuillent on non veuillent.
 
Posts: 2370Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Kalleh
posted Hide Post
I had wanted to read more about the etymology, but unfortunately our OED subscription is up. What a bummer!
 
Posts: 23300 | Location: Chicago, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of arnie
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Kalleh:
Here is a good discussion about willy-nilly.
quote:
There is an equivalent Latin phrase nolens volens, which is formed from two Latin participles that mean “unwilling, willing”. It is sometimes said that willy-nilly is actually a translation of the Latin phrase. It may have been an influence, but it’s hard to tell.

"Willing or not willing".


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
 
Posts: 10930 | Location: LondonReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Kalleh:
... our OED subscription is up.

You can probably access it from your home computer through your library.
 
Posts: 2770 | Location: Shoreline, WA, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Kalleh
posted Hide Post
Well, our local library doesn't have it, and that's why we bought it. I know the Chicago library has it, but you have to live in Chicago. But, thanks, Tinman. I'll ask our library again. I just love having access to the online OED. I guess if worse comes to worst, I'll buy it again.

[BTW, is it worse comes to worse or worst?]
 
Posts: 23300 | Location: Chicago, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of arnie
posted Hide Post
Kalleh,

I think most people can access it via their local library's ticket. See http://www.oed.com/public/acce...ary-access-from-home


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
 
Posts: 10930 | Location: LondonReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Kalleh
posted Hide Post
But I thought your library needs to subscribe. I'll ask.
 
Posts: 23300 | Location: Chicago, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Perhaps you can either convince your library to subscribe or you can get a Chicago Public Library card. From the Chicago Public Library website:
quote:
Chicago Public Library cards are available to applicants residing outside Chicago’s city limits whose local library participates in the Illinois Intersystem Reciprocal Borrowing Covenant. Illinois residents who are reciprocal library users must present a current valid library card from their local reciprocal library and one piece of ID with name and address. After verification from the home library, CPL will issue a Chicago Public Library card.


quote:
[BTW, is it worse comes to worse or worst?]

I would say it's worse comes to worst Worse comes to worse makes no sense to me.
 
Posts: 2770 | Location: Shoreline, WA, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by tinman:
Perhaps you can either convince your library to subscribe or you can get a Chicago Public Library card. From the Chicago Public Library website:
quote:
Chicago Public Library cards are available to applicants residing outside Chicago’s city limits whose local library participates in the Illinois Intersystem Reciprocal Borrowing Covenant. Illinois residents who are reciprocal library users must present a current valid library card from their local reciprocal library and one piece of ID with name and address. After verification from the home library, CPL will issue a Chicago Public Library card.


quote:
[BTW, is it worse comes to worse or worst?]

I would say worse comes to worst. Worse comes to worse makes no sense to me.
 
Posts: 2770 | Location: Shoreline, WA, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Kalleh
posted Hide Post
Yep, I agree with you about the worse comes to worst, though I just wasn't sure.

I know I can never get a Chicago library card. They are quite valuable and no suburbanite can ever get one. The Chicago library system is excellent and their patrons can get so much.
 
Posts: 23300 | Location: Chicago, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:



I would say worse comes to worst

If it's a limerick about sausage, it's verse comes to wurst


It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. -J. Krishnamurti
 
Posts: 4449 | Location: In a cornfield in central IndianaReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Kalleh:

... no suburbanite can ever get one.

Not so, according to the link I posted, which includes a list of participating libraries. Or you can always move to Chicago.
 
Posts: 2770 | Location: Shoreline, WA, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Kalleh
posted Hide Post
Sorry. I meant no suburbanite can get a Chicago library card. They are too good for us peons!
 
Posts: 23300 | Location: Chicago, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I don't understand. The website seems to contradict what you say. Of course, you must know, since I'm sure you've tried to get one.
 
Posts: 2770 | Location: Shoreline, WA, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Kalleh
posted Hide Post
Tinman, I live here. I've tried. That's what we're (non-Chicagoans) told.

Plenty of Websites are wrong. I remember once I was trying to go to the Cricketer Arm's, a British pub in Orlando. I looked it up online, got the hours of business and even the beers on cask. Then I took a cab there...hugely expensive because it is Orlando. It was not only closed, but completely out of business. It looked like it had been that way for ages.
 
Posts: 23300 | Location: Chicago, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Proofreader
posted Hide Post
Google maps is much the same. We looked for a particular restaurant, found it on the web, and checked Google street view to see what the nieighborhood looked like to make sure we could find it. When we got there, the building was boarded up and all the signs were gone.


Give a man a fish and he can eat for one day; give a man a fishing pole and he will find an excuse to never work again.
Nollidj is power.
 
Posts: 6004 | Location: Rhode IslandReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Did you look around for Allen Funt? If it had been me, Google would have notified the restaurant of my interest so they could board it up.


It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. -J. Krishnamurti
 
Posts: 4449 | Location: In a cornfield in central IndianaReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
It sure seems like the Chicago Public Library would do a better job of keeping their website up-to-date.
 
Posts: 2770 | Location: Shoreline, WA, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of bethree5
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Proofreader:
Google maps is much the same. We looked for a particular restaurant, found it on the web, and checked Google street view to see what the nieighborhood looked like to make sure we could find it. When we got there, the building was boarded up and all the signs were gone.

For years-- until the update-- my kids enjoyed googling our home address for a picture with our old '95 van out front with a corner of the [long-gone] swingset showing out back.
 
Posts: 2050 | Location: As they say at 101.5FM: Not New York... Not Philadelphia... PROUD TO BE NEW JERSEY!Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Proofreader
posted Hide Post
It's funny to look at Google Street View and see our house before Hurricane Irene dropped out two big trees on it.


Give a man a fish and he can eat for one day; give a man a fishing pole and he will find an excuse to never work again.
Nollidj is power.
 
Posts: 6004 | Location: Rhode IslandReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Kalleh
posted Hide Post
quote:
It sure seems like the Chicago Public Library would do a better job of keeping their website up-to-date.
Sorry to be late in answering this. Tinman, since I have been in Chicago, which is quite awhile, there has never been a time that the Chicago Public Library cooperated with the other library districts. Believe me, I've tried because they have a great system. So...it's not really about keeping the Web site "up-to-date." It's more about being accurate.
 
Posts: 23300 | Location: Chicago, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

Wordcraft Home Page    Wordcraft Community Home Page    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  The Written Word    Excellent, if now obsolete, use of language

Copyright © 2002-12