Jerry, obviously you are pointing out what you consider to be an error; you think the word "compatriot" only means coming from one's same country. It's okay; you can point out my presumed errors directly. I don't bite.
However, I would argue with you that it really is an error. When I look up "compatriot" in dictionaries that come from England (e.g., the OED or the COED), I see that's the way they use the word. However, when I look it up in the more American dictionaries it has definitions like, "COMPANION, COLLEAGUE <her compatriots in academia>" (MW) or "comrade: a fellow member of a group or organization, especially a military or political one" (Encarta World English Dictionary, North American Edition). I have always used the "compatriot" as in the latter definitions. Being from academia, the suggested use from MW is on target. In the latter definition from Ecarta, its use could mean a fellow member of wordcraft.
So, this time, I think I am right. I think you will all admit that when I am wrong, I admit it. But sometimes, believe it or not, I am not wrong!
Very interesting. On the one hand, OED's definition confirms what Richard says. On the other hand, OED's quotations include one which would seem to support Kallh's further meaning of the term: "1683 E. HOOKER Pref. Pordage's Myst. Div. 107 Your Friend, Acquaintante, or Compatriot".
The usages in the recent UK press also confirm Richard's reading. Interestingly, they were almost all in the area of sports. Would that seem accurate to you UKers? Wonder why this is.
The usages in the recent UK press also confirm Richard's reading. Interestingly, they were almost all in the area of sports. Would that seem accurate to you UKers? Wonder why this is.
Sport (especially football) is a consuming passion for many people in the UK.
Large amounts of news time have been taken up today telling us the David Beckham is going to the Los Angeles to captain a US football team for a quite obscene amount of money. A very large proportion of all of our national newspapers is taken up with sport rather than news. Fortunately The Times produces the football section as a separate pull-out that I can throw straight into the bin without even opening it.
Richard English
Posts: 6303 | Location: Partridge Green, West Sussex, UK
Much sport consists of international teams playing each other. Compatriots can therefore be colleagues in the same team. However, many players in English football, especially, come from abroad. Arsenal, for example has several French players and reporters might use "compatriot" to describe two players in the team who happen to be French. There are French players in plenty of other clubs, though, so "compatriots" could be used to describe two opposing players.
In short, we only use the word in the sense of "coming from the same country", as Richard says.
Come on you raver, you seer of visions, Come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!
Regarding British/American uses of "keen": In the UK you would say "I'm keen on cooking" (meaning American "I like/am interested in cooking") and Americans would say, in slang, "That's a keen fishing rod" (meaning it's very nice). American "keen" is outdated, being used more until the sixties, and smile-provoking now.
Precisely, Mark, and it's so nice to see you back again.
Neveu, I am surprised about your and Jerry's only seeing "compatriots" used to mean from the same country. I've definitely heard it the more general way a fair bit. Perhaps it's a regional use here in the midwest?
"Compadre" is sometimes heard in Spanish/Mexican-related films (often Westerns), but means something much more then "compatriot". It implies a deeper relationship than does "compatriot", having to do with familial or filial feelings rather than belonging to a group, whether that group be related to football or citizenship.
For the literal-minded it is literally a co-father (or co-parent). The relationship of compadre refers to that between the biological parents of a child and its godparents. It's a sort of blood relatives by adoption concept.
[Corrected typo.]
This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd,
Americans would say, in slang, "That's a keen fishing rod" (meaning it's very nice). American "keen" is outdated, being used more until the sixties, and smile-provoking now.
When I worked for a year in Boston, Mass, in the 60s I often heard this use of 'keen', but also the very similar use of 'neat' as a general pleasantry (like nice) which was strange to my English background, where 'neat' meant a tidy, compact presentation of something or somebody. Is 'neat' still applied in this general sense in the US of A?
A similar word (not used over here but heard in Westerns and the like) would be compadre. I wonder if some Americans are mixing up the two?
Arnie, I don't think the Americans are getting anything "mixed up." As I state above, the dictionaries are citing it that way. I believe the word has just evolved a bit differently here, though perhaps that's what you meant.
Yes, "neat" and "cool" are both used. I don't necessarily think saying "neat" dates the speaker, but maybe I am one of those who is dated.
Perhaps "mixing up" was a poor choice of words. What I meant is that perhaps Americans are looking at the Spanish compadre and use "compatriot" in a similar way.
As I said, "compatriot" can only be used to mean "fellow-countryman" in this country. I see that the dictionaries cited for the alternative meaning you mention are solely American.
Come on you raver, you seer of visions, Come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!
You would be corrrect in assuming that most Americans equate "compadre" with "companion", although it would have to be a very close companion, not just an acquaintance.
As I was driving today, I heard on NPR about the need to get rid of elephants in Africa, though both the interviewer and the interviewee were British. I so enjoyed their accents and the use of words.
However, one thing interested me. While the interview was somewhat formal (and sounded more so because of the accents), they used some really informal words or phrases and seemed to have fun doing so. The interviewer, for example, said, "What process will you use to stamp out the elephants?" Then later on, the interviewee was explaining why birth control probably wouldn't help. He said, "It's unlikely the elephants would line up and present their bums for the injections." The interviewer seemed to like that comment!
LOL about elephants and birth control. Makes me think of an old joke about Texans and condoms. I'll try to think of it and post it somewhere.
I wonder - couldn't they just put birth control pills in their kibble? Oh wait - these are wild elephants? Interesting condomundrum. Maybe they need to tie off thier scrotums? (there, I used the word again!)
******* "Show your true colors. Mine is Yellow." ~Big Bird
Oh, I forgot about another comment made by the man being interviewed. He was comparing something (I can't recall what, but I don't think it was the elephants scrotum ) to the size of a "fizzy drink can." I thought that hilarious!
I think the problem with birth control was that it comes in injections. Besides that, he worried about "selective control" (that is, only taking out certain families), which I thought a funny thing to worry about in elephants. The interviewee also didn't think it was good to make it a big show and allow hunters to kill them. So they really didn't seem too sure how these elephants were to be killed, but there are too many in Africa and it's affecting the ecologic balance.
Is it 'fizzy drink' that you find hilarious? That's a fairly common phrase used over here to describe soda, cola, pop, or whatever you call it in your neck of the woods. In short, it refers to any carbonated non-alcoholic drink.
Come on you raver, you seer of visions, Come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!
Yes, it's the "fizzy drink" that I thought hilarious. No offense to my dear friends in England, but it sounds like something a 2-year-old would call it. I am sure we have phrases that sound like that to you.
