Well of course! I had been reading about chiffchaffs in Wikipedia and forgot the book takes place in England...near Surrey.

Surrey is a county, not a town, so it seems more likely that the action would take place IN Surrey, not NEAR Surrey. Does the book say which town it was?

Until two years ago I lived in Reigate, in Surrey.

Here's the sentence: "Some miles beyond the Tallises' land rose the Surrey Hills and their motionless crowds of thick crested oaks, their greens softened by a milky heat haze."

The Surrey Hills - Area of Outstanding Natural beauty.

The Surrey Hills are part of the North Downs and I used to live in Reigate at the foot of Colley Hill - one of the Surrey Hills. The town is clearly shown on the map on this link.

Now I live in Sussex and am just north of the South Downs.

The railway that used to run from Guildford to Shoreham (and along our garden) used to link the North and South Downs and the walking and cycling track that now follows the railway's old route is known as the Downslink.

And I don't know why they are called Downs when they are actually ups!

quote:

And I don't know why they are called Downs when they are actually ups!

Well, when you're at the top, the only way is down ...

I saw a book today that had huge lists of words where the British and Americans differ in their vocabulary. I knew there were differences, but I hadn't known how many! This book had several categories, all including long lists of words.

In a book I recently read, which took place in England, a character said that only an American would give this order: "On the double!" The British say, "At the double!" Is that true? If so, it's another I haven't heard.

At the double is much more common here. I have very occasionally heard on the double.

Reviving a thread...

When Richard was in Chicago, we had trouble finding articles in the Chicago Tribune about Europe, much less England. Too bad he's not here today...there was a long article about Boris Johnson, the new mayor of London. The author writes about the word "toffs," saying that it is hard to define. Here is what the reporter says:

quote:

Johnson and his upper-crust pals in Bullingdon are what the Brits call toffs. The word is hard to define. It generally refers to a kind of supercilious dandyism. Think of Prince Charles stepping out in a tartan kilt.

I searched our site and found that we'd talked about "toffs" in this thread in 2004. Here I had defined it as "elegantly dressed men with affected manners." Cat added that it's not the most polite term. (She actually said "it's not the most polite of terms," but given recent discussions, I avoided that verbiage. )

I rather like the definition of "toffs" that's given in the article, "supercilious dandyism." I don't think we Americans have a term that defines that, do we?

quote:

it's not the most polite of terms

Both the grammar of the phrase and its meaning seem fine to me.

And "toff" like so many other class-related terms, is easier to understand if you have been brought up in a class-based society, as have we in England. The term has little to do with dress or dandyism and everything to do with the impression that a person's status has on the person using the term.

To me Boris Johnson is not a toff - but he could be thus described by others who come from a different background to myself. Indeed, to some I might be considered a toff, simply because of the way I speak and behave.

quote:

Originally posted by Kalleh:

I rather like the definition of "toffs" that's given in the article, "supercilious dandyism." I don't think we Americans have a term that defines that, do we?

Well, not wishing to cause offence (when outnumbered)I won't try to guess why that should be. It's a useful word, and short, to boot. But Richard is right as usual in saying it reflects a more class conscious society. Its use is subtle and not a little ambiguous. The OED sums it up well:

quote:

An appellation, orig. given by the lower classes, to a person who is stylishly dressed or who has a smart appearance; a swell; hence, one of the well-to-do, a ‘nob’.
 b. Sometimes applied in compliment to a person who behaves ‘handsomely’; a ‘brick’.
1906 Daily Chron. 25 May 4/7 One of the witnesses..spoke of a generous employer as ‘a regular toff’. ‘Toff’ is perhaps the highest compliment, or the bitterest sneer, according to the tone, that a man who does not make any pretence to magnificence can aim at a man who does.

Though still in current use, it is less frequently met than 50 yrs ago, and the OED shows no recent quotations.

Now why would that cause offense?

I was just saying that I liked the phrase "supercilious dandyism." I understand that it's not a good definition for toff.

Is dodgy, meaning "borderline" (such as a dodgy student), used in England? At a conference recently a participant from Australia used the term, and it confused all the Americans.

There was another Australian fellow there who is interested in joining Wordcraft. He also likes poetry, limericks and double dactyls. When I told him that we enjoy them on Wordcraft, he wrote me a limerick! I hope he joins us because I think everyone here would like him. Besides, we need some more Aussies!

Dodgy has much the same meaning in UK English.

The dictionaries call it chiefly British. After these educators heard the word, and we all have a dodgy student from time to time, we all started to use it.