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Oration: types of speechs

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May 18, 2003, 20:08
wordcrafter
Oration: types of speechs
This week we'll talk about types of speeches one might make -- beginning with a word that also fits last week's theme. (I do so love to be able to link themes that way!)

jeremiad - a speech expressing a bitter lament or a righteous prophecy of doom

One source says "a prolonged lamentation or complaint"; another says "a tale of sorrow, disappointment, or complaint; a doleful story; a dolorous tirade". To me those definitions err in that they would include a whiney tale of the woes one has suffered; to my reading "jeremiad" implies an angry denunciation. Comments?
May 19, 2003, 02:14
arnie
I'm no Bible scholar, but the impression I have is of the lamentations of Jeremiah. Israel was going through a rather unhappy time when he wrote and he was bemoaning the fact, feeling that current misfortunes were considered a just penalty for past misdeeds, and that repentance was the only answer.

Certainly he had righteous anger, in the true sense of the phrase. However, the sense I have is of a lament or complaint rather than anger.
May 19, 2003, 18:24
wordcrafter
peroration - the concluding part of an oration; especially, a final summing up of an argument

perorate - to so conclude a speech; also, to speak at great length, esp. in a grandiloquent manner
quote:
In the House of Commons, 18 July 1991:
Sir Michael McNair-Wilson: Will my hon. Friend resist any further regulations from the [EU] Community that might interfere with the traditional names of favourite English foods? May we have an assurance that well-known English foods, using their generic names, such as Cheddar cheese, York ham or Devon or Cornish cream will not be brought within the regulations and that he will resist any attempt to change those names? Will he also defend the British kipper from any suggestion that the wisest cure constitutes a health risk?

Mr. Curry:[A]t the meeting of the Agriculture Council in Luxembourg last month, when I represented the United Kingdom, I gave a considerable peroration on precisely that subject. It is wholly unnecessary and perfectly silly that generic names should be included in any bureaucratic regulations.

As for the kipper, I share my hon. Friend's predilection for that delicacy. I see no reason why any food should be interfered with, other than on health grounds, and there are no health grounds whatever to get in the way of the good old British kipper.

Mr. Cormack: Was my hon. Friend's peroration successful? If not, will he repeat it until it is?

May 19, 2003, 19:04
jerry thomas
We all make misteaks.

But it seems incongruous to see a headline in this Forum with the plural of "speech" spelled "speechs."

Written by Wordcrafter, of all people !!!

Shocking!!
May 19, 2003, 19:20
haberdasher
Neatly detixified!
May 20, 2003, 01:59
Richard English
Let us be thankful that is wasn't spelt "speech's"!

Richard English
May 22, 2003, 07:00
wordcrafter
re "speechs": Oops!

Doing a little catch-up here, with a word you won't find in the dictionaries (more's the pity), one that has two completely different meanings. World Wide Words gives a very interesting discussion of the etymology.

stemwinder - a rousing political speech
quote:
After all the calls to unity, a stemwinder in the old tradition from Hubert Humphrey, appearances by Muskie and Kennedy, Sargent Shriver was formally nominated for Vice-President.
- Theodore White, The Making of the President

Mohammad al-Asi last April gave a stemwinder of an anti-Semitic speech to the howls of approval from assembled Muslim students. His speech was laced with these phrases: "Zionist, racist, criminal" Israelis, the "hard-core war criminal Sharon," "Zionist thugs," "poisoned Israeli Zionist soil."
- Steven Greenhut, Muslim leaders should get off the fence, The Orange County Register, Nov. 24, 2002


But occasionally: stemwinder - a speech so long and boring that it feels as though one needs to wind one’s watch before it ends
quote:
the Bill Clinton of 1988, who gave a tedious stemwinder in 1988 that has gone down in the books as the worst nominating speech in recent memory
- Bill Schneider and Keating Hollan, What to look for Thursday at the Democratic National Convention, reporting on CNN's Website, August 17, 2000

May 22, 2003, 07:03
Ros
I've sat through a few stemwinders of the latter definition! Must remember the word for the next time!

Ros
May 22, 2003, 09:15
Tadpole
Ummm, isn't a 'tedious stemwinder' tautological? Or have I misunderstood the meaning?
Confused

Tadpole
May 22, 2003, 13:11
tsuwm
quote:
Originally posted by wordcrafter:
re _"speechs":_ Oops!

a word you won't find in the dictionaries (more's the pity)


try 'stem-winder'!
May 22, 2003, 16:23
wordcrafter
Touché, tsuwm! Interestingly, if you put that into google you'll be asked if you want it without the hyphen; yet the hyphenated spelling has more google hits than the non-hyphenated, by about a 60-40 ratio.

panegyric - an oration or eulogy in praise of some person or achievement
from Greek panegyris "public assembly," from pan- "all" + agyris "place of assembly
quote:
The highest panegyric, therefore, that private virtue can receive, is the praise of servants.
- Samuel Johnson

The South had begun to throw out its skirmishers for a [Lyndon B.] Johnson presidential candidacy in 1956 … the press was going to join in the chorus … "This super-sensitive political town has begun speculating this week" about " the first rumblings of a Johnson presidential bandwagon," the [Liz Carpenter] article said. The New Republic's July 4 issue would carry what would be described as an "exuberant panegyric" of Johnson by Senator Richard Neuberger.
– Robert A. Caro, Master of the Senate


May 23, 2003, 07:06
wordcrafter
tub-thumping (adjective or noun) - a forceful, violent or ranting impassioned speech, based more on emotion than reason.

Think of the preacher who pounds on the pulpit. Quinion notes, "At the time the expression was first recorded — in the Cromwellian period of English history, roughly the 1650s — the allusion was to nonconformist preachers."
quote:
[Coffee:] By the end of the 15th century devout Catholics were asking the Pope to ban the 'devil's drink' (he took one sip and went over to the Dark Side) and the Women's Petition Against Coffee Houses in 1674 never had a chance in hell. By this time, coffeehouses had become hotbeds of intellectual activity, and a cup usually came with a tub-thumping and a querulous call to arms. Voltaire, Diderot and Robespierre all hung out at coffeehouses - ... conservative institutions such as Lloyd's and the London Stock Exchange were incubated in the same hothouse environment.
- Lonely Planet Publications, theme guide to food

May 25, 2003, 12:56
wordcrafter
demegoric – of or pertaining to public speaking¹

contrast histrionic – relating to actors or acting; also, excessively dramatic or emotional; affected.

-------

¹This is the OED definition, but not the only one you can find: the word appears in at least three free on-line dictionaries, each time defined as "pertaining to demagogues or demagogic speech". That is is quite different – and would seem to make demegoric a useless word, duplicating demegogic.

The sole cite in OED does not give clear usage evidence, one way or another.

Can any of our readers shed light by telling us what the Greek demegorikos would mean?
May 26, 2003, 06:48
Ammon Shea
I think that demegorikos means 'qualified as a public speaker'.
May 27, 2003, 16:18
C J Strolin
quote:
Originally posted by Ammon Shea:
I think that demegorikos means 'qualified as a public speaker'.

No, don't think so. When I was growing up, my family always used the word "demegorikos" to mean "a small gorikos" but, hey, that could've just been us.
September 20, 2004, 17:56
Kalleh
jeremiad - a speech expressing a bitter lament or a righteous prophecy of doom

There was an excellent article about blogs in the Chicago Tribune using this rather rare (at least to me) word: "...the chaotic new media world where questionable truths joust with plausible fictions, agendas are often hidden, and motives are frequently mixed, and millions of ordinary citizens clamber to offer their own rumors, opinions and jeremiads.

Nice word; I need to use it more! It surely does apply to blogs.
September 20, 2004, 19:37
tinman
quote:
Originally posted by Kalleh:
jeremiad - a speech expressing a bitter lament or a righteous prophecy of doom

I thought jeremiad was a bullfrog!

Tinman
September 21, 2004, 07:57
arnie
A jeremiad, of course, comes from the Old Testament prophet, Jeremiah, who angrily denounced the wickedness of his people in the eponymous book of the Bible.


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
September 22, 2004, 19:12
Kalleh
But, he was a bullfrog, too! Wink
October 01, 2004, 10:30
Caterwauller
good friend of YOURS, too???

hard to understand, though


*******
"Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
~Dalai Lama
July 24, 2016, 20:47
Kalleh
Reviving a thread In the Chicago Tribune, there was an article about Trump that started with:
quote:

After delivering a stemwinder of a speech at the Republican National Convention on Tuesday night, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie settled in with the MSNBC "Morning Joe" crew for a chummy Wednesday morning recap.
Can't say that I've heard that word used much, but it is an intriguing one. Read Wordcrafter's discussion of it (above). So interesting!
August 17, 2016, 09:26
Proofreader
Speaking of The Donald, a commentator on a dscusson panel said Trump was born on third base but acts like he hit a triple."


Give a man a fish and he can eat for one day; give a man a fishing pole and he will find an excuse to never work again.
Nollidj is power.
August 17, 2016, 09:28
Proofreader
And the Olympics coverage again treats third-place Americans like they won and virtually ignores the foreign winners.


Give a man a fish and he can eat for one day; give a man a fishing pole and he will find an excuse to never work again.
Nollidj is power.
August 17, 2016, 13:15
Proofreader
I dont know how the preceding showed up here.


Give a man a fish and he can eat for one day; give a man a fishing pole and he will find an excuse to never work again.
Nollidj is power.
August 22, 2016, 20:09
Kalleh
quote:
And the Olympics coverage again treats third-place Americans like they won and virtually ignores the foreign winners.

I've heard this complaint before, but my response always is that the audience is from the U.S., and you do cater to your audience.
August 23, 2016, 04:15
bethree5
Alas, the word will leave those under 40 clueless. Perhaps today's crowd would call it a tweeter?

Hitchcock remake "Press M for Murder"?
August 23, 2016, 11:59
Proofreader
quote:
Hitchcock remake "Press M for Murder

Text M...


Give a man a fish and he can eat for one day; give a man a fishing pole and he will find an excuse to never work again.
Nollidj is power.
August 23, 2016, 20:35
Kalleh
Speaking of past times, I remember my mother used to have a kitchen appliance call the "toasted cheese maker," or something. Today of course it's "grilled cheese." But they don't have those makers anymore, do they?
January 09, 2017, 05:40
Proofreader
quote:
a kitchen appliance call the "toasted cheese maker,"

A spouse.


Give a man a fish and he can eat for one day; give a man a fishing pole and he will find an excuse to never work again.
Nollidj is power.