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Pleasant conversation

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March 02, 2003, 18:36
wordcrafter
Pleasant conversation
eutrapely - pleasantness in conversation, one of the seven moral virtues that Aristotle enumerated. In the New Testament this word was used to mean 'reprehensible levity of speech'.

The are few quotations available other than from reviews of the book, by Erin McKean, in which I found this word.

This week we'll feature pleasant conversationalists. Sadly, fewer words are available for pleasant conversationalists than for unpleasant ones -- so do feel free to supplement our offerings.
March 03, 2003, 16:34
Duncan Howell
Where, in the N.T. would I look to find 'eutrapely'?
March 03, 2003, 18:29
jerry thomas
Dictionary.com
No entry found for eutrapely.
click here

eutrapely was not found in the Cambridge International Dictionary of English
click here

eutrapelia [also eutrapely] /yoo trap el EE ah/ Aristotle's word for pleasantness in conversation: wit, repartee; liveliness; urbanity
click here
March 04, 2003, 02:49
arnie
OneLook Dictionary Search gives just one link to a definition of eutrapely. That is to Forthrights Phrontistery - Dictionary of Obscure Words where it is defined as "wit, ease and urbanity of conversation".
March 04, 2003, 05:01
wordcrafter
>Where, in the N.T. would I look to find 'eutrapely'?

Duncan, that's an excellent question. My source is the book Weird and Wonderful Words by Erin McKean, of OED, which says that 'eutrapely' is so used but gives no cite. I'll e-mail her a note.

persifleur - one who indulges in persiflage; a banterer; a quiz
(persiflage - light teasing; good natured or frivolous talk)
(quiz [in this sense] - chiefly British to poke fun at; mock)
This sense of 'quiz' seems negative, although 'persiflage' does not. Can our brits comment on whether 'quiz' is negative, and if so perhaps used to have a different overtone?

quote:
A raven sat upon a tree,
And not a word he spoke, for
His beak contained a piece of Brie.
Or, maybe it was Roquefort.
We'll make it any kind you please --
At all events it was a cheese.

Beneath the tree's umbrageous limb
A hungry fox sat smiling;
He saw the raven watching him,
And spoke in words beguiling:
"J'admire," said he, "ton beau plumage!"
(The which was simply persiflage.)

- Guy Wetmore Carryl, The Sycophantic Fox and the Gullible Raven (a retelling of Aesop's fable)


[This message was edited by wordcrafter on Tue Mar 4th, 2003 at 5:10.]
March 04, 2003, 08:22
arnie
The only use of the word quiz in modern British English is in the sense of "test". As a verb, it means "to ask questions". I see that AHD gives an alternative meaning of "to poke fun at, mock" and says that it is chiefly British. I must say I have never seen or heard this usage.

Apparently the original meaning was "a strange person".

See also World Wide Words and The Word Detective.
March 04, 2003, 09:24
Richard English
I had never heard of this meaning of the word Quiz either. However, the OED suggests that it is an archaic British expression meaning "to make sport of or regard with a mocking air".

Certainly not a current usage and the OED gives its origin as 18th century.

Now, what does the AHD say about "gadzooks!"? Another current UK expression, perchance?

Richard English
March 04, 2003, 15:33
C J Strolin
Thanks, Arnie, for helping torpedo one of my favorite word etymology stories of all times.

I must have told that "a hundred street urchins with chalk" tale to people in a dozen different states and three countries myself (all of whom loved it and complimented me on my vast accumulation of interesting information) and am now obligated to contact every damn one of them and fess up.

Plus, your link to the Word Detective site (only slightly less addicting than heroin) helped me while away yet another hour that I could have put to better use double dactyling.
March 04, 2003, 19:06
Kalleh
CJ, you crack me up! Big Grin Just as I envision Richard in his Rolls-Royce, sipping a Hog's Back T.E.A.---I envision you madly writing, books & papers strewn around, chuckling to yourself as you write your 40th double dactyl! Wink
March 05, 2003, 05:10
wordcrafter
causerie - informal discussion or chat, especially of an intellectual nature (also, a chatty piece of writing)

causeur - an easy talker, frequently witty, plesant to hear
causeuse - formerly meant a female version of the same; now means a small cofa cozy for two people to have a long chat
quote:
Until recently, the history of art, particularly that of literature, has had more in common with causerie than with scholarship. It obeyed all the laws of causerie, skipping blithely from topic to topic, from lyrical effusions on the elegance of forms to anecdotes from the artist's life, from psychological truisms to questions concerning philosophical significance and social environment.
- Roman Jakobson, On Realism and Art, (1921; translated), reprinted in Context on-line forum of literary criticism

March 06, 2003, 07:55
wordcrafter
"How are you? Lovely day, isn't it?" (smile; nod of head) We're familiar with talk and gesture that, though it doesn't really communicate anything, is the social lubricant to maintain our channels of communication. But the word for this familiar phenomenon hasn't entered everyday vocabulary.

phatic - relating to speech used to share feelings or to establish a sociable mood, rather than to communicate information or ideas

English on-line explains:
quote:
[The term was coined] by [Bronisław] Malinowski [1923], the anthropologist who studied the speech and customs of the Trobriand Islanders. He described such talk as a means by which 'ties of union are created by the mere exchange of words.' Typically, in New Zealand, such phatic communion centres on comments about the weather, on personal appearance, enquiries about health, or affirmations about everyday things.

For example:
quote:
Don't tell your friends about your indigestion.
"How are you?" is a greeting, not a question.
- apparently Arthur Guiterman, but sometimes attributed to Robert Benchley

March 06, 2003, 19:25
Duncan Howell
"How are you?", is,indeed, a mere greeting today. But,surely, we have inherited this greeting from times when it was not phatic. When life was 'nasty, brutish, and short', "How are you?" was a serious and considerate question.
March 07, 2003, 06:46
wordcrafter
When I adopted this 'pleasant conversation' theme, several of my seven words came from a single compilation-book. But now, a check of OED reveals that one is not recognized, two others are not necessarily pleasant, and still others are pleasant but not necessarily conversation.

It's a sad thought that I can only find two words for pleasant conversation – plus an obscure Aristotelian word and a technical 20th-century coinage. So for the rest of the week, we'll stretch the scope of this theme just a bit.

subtlist (also subtilist) – one addicted to subtleties
subtilism – the quality or state of being subtle; subtlety

Not necessarily a positive word.
quote:
The rude, discursive Thinker is the Scholastic (Schoolman Logician). The true Scholastic is a mystical Subtlist; out of logical Atoms he builds his Universe; he annihilates all living Nature, to put an Artifice of Thoughts (Gedankenkunststuck, literally Conjuror's-trick of Thoughts) in its room. His aim is an infinite Automaton. Opposite to him is the rude, intuitive Poet ...
- Thomas Carlyle, 1829, discussing and quoting Novalis (pseudonym of Friedrich von Hardenberg). I glean that Novalis wrote in German, and Carlyle is quoting a translation.

March 08, 2003, 09:31
wordcrafter
birkie – a lively, engaging, intelligent clean-cut, confident person

So says J.N. Hook's The Grand Panjandrum, saying that English ought to adopt this Scottish word. In fact it is already in our English dictionaries, but with oddly varying definitions.

- a man, especially one who is spirited and energetic (AHD)
- a lively smart assertive person (Webst. Coll.)
- a lively or mettlesome fellow (Webster's Rev. Unabridged)
- a strutting or swaggering fellow” (Chambers Dict., as cited in World Wide Words)
- a smart fellow, a conceited fellow, or a sharp-tongued, quick tempered person, usually a woman (on-line source)

I'd like to take it as a complimentary term. Here are some usages, some of them complimentary:

quote:
Ye see yon birkie ca'd a lord,
Wha struts, an' stares, an' a' that;
Tho' hundreds worship at his word,
He's but a coof for a' that.
- Robert Burns, A Man's A Man For A' That (ca'd = called; coof = fool)

LADY KATE: It was at a tournament at Langholm. I was seated in the grandstand alang wi' umpteen ither lassies. Effie was beside me. She was my personal maid then. There he was, this young birkie, aboot tae ride in the lists, astride a muckle grey horse. I'd never seen sic a braw handsome figure.
- from Brodie the Broadsword by Alan Richardson, Winner of the 1975 SCDA Playwriting Competition

And this young birkie here, that ye're hoying and hounding on the shortest road to the gallows and the deevil, will his stage-plays and his poetries help him here, dye think.
- Sir Walter Scott, Rob Roy, ch. 23

March 09, 2003, 08:32
wordcrafter
(A reader notes: "Birkie" has been in my vocabulary for some time, as an abbreviation for Birkenstock (sandals) -- some common usage examples: "Oh no, the dog ate my Birkie!" or "Where did I put those @W#$%&* Birkies?")

bridgebuilder – a peacemaker; an arbirator; one who seeks to help opposing sides understtand each others positions, and to reconcile their differences

The word could have broader use. It appears largely in the religious context and into the bafflegab of government-body mission statements.
quote:
The vivacious non-denominational minister acts as a bridgebuilder between orthodoxy and new thought, between religions, races and languages.
Janet Heard, From pink to wed; The 'rebel' preacher who's in demand, Sunday Times (South Africa) 17 October 1999

ISPO, the Information Society Promotion Office of the [European] Commission, acts as a bridgebuilder between the Commission and the many European counterparts ...