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Antedating the OED

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January 16, 2006, 11:17
wordcrafter
Antedating the OED
The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) is a remarkable feat of scholarship. The 20-volume second edition, dated 1989, contains 291,500 entries (contrast about 107,000 for Merriam Webster on-line, and 89,000 for American Heritage), with almost 2½ million quotations to illustrate them.

But the OED is a work of 19th- and early-20th-century scholarship, one that OED must constantly update as the language grows – and as our ability to research it grows. OED editors give the earliest citations they know of, but they of course could not check every single published work. Today, however, search technology provides a new way to look for earlier citations, for antedates. It is perhaps impossible for OED to keep fully up-to-date, and thus some antedates have been found but not yet published, while other antedates remained undiscovered.

To illustrate, this week we present words with citations that antedate OED's earliest. OED has been revising its entries, proceeding gradually through the alphabet, and we will concentrate on a portion which OED revised as recently as 2000.

majorette or drum majorette – a girl or woman who leads a marching band or accompanies it as a baton twirler
[Note: sources differ as to whether each term includes the leader, the twirler, or the band-member playing an instrument.]

Edited to make correction noted in next two posts.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: wordcrafter,
January 16, 2006, 11:43
zmježd
the OED is a work of 18th- and early-19th-century scholarship

The OED was begun in the mid-19th century, though it took a couple of decades to start publishing the results. I think you meant 19th- and early-20th-century scholarship. They kept things going rather well. For instance, they were the first dicitonary I know of that used SGML/XML markup.


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
January 16, 2006, 16:55
wordcrafter
Quote: "I think you meant 19th- and early-20th-century"

Yep. Brain fart.
January 17, 2006, 07:12
wordcrafter
manhandling (noun) – rough handling
January 17, 2006, 11:15
arnie
I do hope you are keeping the OED informed of the results of your researches, WC. If so, do let us know if they decide to accept any of your discoveries!


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
January 18, 2006, 06:51
wordcrafter
Agreed, arnie. I've corresponded with John Simpson of OED, and I'm doing just that, using access which he kindly provided to me for OED on-line.
January 18, 2006, 06:57
wordcrafter
mail slot – a slot or slit in a door (occasionally in a wall), through which mail can be delivered

Here OED can be antedated very substantially. Also, OED errs by defining mail slot as "letter box", since a mail slot is not a box or any other sort of closed container. Rather, mail pushed through the slot simply falls to the floor, accessible to all on that side of the door. Our first quote illustrates dire consequences of that access. Wink

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January 18, 2006, 07:31
Royston
In the UK, the term "letter box" is used ubiquitously to refer to the slot in a door which letters are pushed through. There's no suggestion in the term as used that any sort of container is involved.

The term "mail slot" is never used in the UK.

Just thought you should know.
January 18, 2006, 10:24
arnie
Welcome, Royston! Smile

You beat me to it. As soon as I came home and saw the Wordcraft word of the day in my inbox, I came here with the intention to post the same as you. Wink


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
January 18, 2006, 12:52
Richard English
quote:
In the UK, the term "letter box" is used ubiquitously to refer to the slot in a door which letters are pushed through.
Although interestingly the correct builders' term for this particular item of door furniture is a "letter plate".

I assume this is to distinguish it from a true letter-box which is used to catch the mail if needed. We had one during the time we had a Lakeland Terrier who would, given the chance, shred the letters as they appeared through the door.


Richard English
January 18, 2006, 18:51
Kalleh
Welcome, Royston! Smile Big Grin Wink Cool

It's so nice to see another person from the UK! Please stay here with us.

Do those of you who live in England use the term "mailbox?" We either have a "mail slot" or a "mailbox." If it's a "letter box," doesn't that mean there'd only be letters there? We get all sorts of mail besides letters through our "mail slot."
January 19, 2006, 05:20
Erik Johansen
Kalleh, we get junk mail too- lots and lots of it! All of which goes straight into the bin in my house. I do admire an American however who, sick of all the unsolicited stuff coming through his letter box starting using the business reply letter to send usually a cut up old truck tyre back to the senders! Apparently his junk mail soon dried up to almost nothing!
We do in England, at least around where I live anyway, sometime refer to the place where you put your stamped letters for pick up for delivery as the 'mail box'. More often, however it's called the post or pillar box.

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January 19, 2006, 06:39
wordcrafter
Welcome, Royston, and thank you for improving the quality of our knowledge. That's a large part of what we're about here.
January 19, 2006, 06:40
wordcrafter
man-hating – hatred of the male sex; misandry

From the quote dates, it seems that such things run in cycles.Bonus words and side note:
Misogyny is a fairly well-known word for "hatred of women". The counterpart for "hatred of men" is misandry, but is much less familiar, and has only 1/17th as many google hits. I am not brave enough to speculate on why there should be such a difference.
January 19, 2006, 07:08
Robert Arvanitis
Google hits:
Misogyny - 922,000
Misandry - 56,500
Misanthropy - 516,800
Cuts the lead to 60%.

Perhaps we should investigate further, viz.
Misogyny, Misandry, and Misanthropy
R. Howard Bloch and Frances Ferguson, editors
UC Press 1989


RJA
January 19, 2006, 07:13
wordnerd
Does 'misanthropy' count? To me it means hatred of mankind, and not hatred of the male gender. I wonder how frequently it's used the other way.
January 19, 2006, 07:14
Royston
You probably didn't know but there is a TV programme currently running in the UK which seeks to find citations which predate the current OED, as well as determine derivations for words which have flummoxed the OED editors' enormous brains.

The latest edition looked for (and failed to find) a convincing explanation for the term "nutmeg", as used to describe the passing of a football (soccer ball) through the legs of an unfortunate opponent. Perhaps you can help them out?
January 19, 2006, 11:25
arnie
Hi, Royston,

Not only do we know about it, there's a thread about it in the Community forum. Smile

There's quite a decent number of British posters here!


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
January 19, 2006, 11:47
BobHale
Which is not to say that we don't appreciate your mentioning it and we haven't yet, as far as I know, investigated nutmeg. Being a lifelong non sports fan I hadn't even heard the term before the program.

Thought it was a jolly nice item on nice as well. Especially as I'm in the camp that hates the word.

Welcome to the board. Have you read the thread on the convention yet?


"No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson.
January 20, 2006, 05:58
Royston
I like the word nice. Nice is one of those flexible words which can mean precisely opposite things, depending purely on the stress of the reading.

For example, the response to a fine example of football skill - "That's VERY nice" - compared to the response to someone spitting on the pavement - "THAT'S very nice".

I also like a nice Nice biscuit but perhaps that's just me.
January 20, 2006, 07:21
wordcrafter
My point in this theme goes beyond the individual words. The OED, though wonderful, is far from perfect its citations. It is easy to say that, but far more convincing to demonstrate it with several examples.

mass market – the market for goods produced in large quantities for the broad population
Follow-up
regarding mail slot: Several readers note that in British usage, a 'letterbox' is not necessarily a closed container. It is typically just a slot in a door.
January 20, 2006, 11:34
arnie
quote:
I also like a nice Nice biscuit


Another forum I post to had a debate about where Nice biscuits get their name from a while back. We didn't come to any real decisions, though. Has anyone any idea? No-one could find any tie-in with seemingly the most obvious origin, Nice in France. OED says
quote:
[App. < Nice (French Nice), the name of a city on the Côte d'Azur in south-eastern France, although the reason for the name is unclear.]
It also gives a 1994 quote from the Daily Mail
quote:
What is the origin of ‘Nice’ biscuits? Are they from the town of Nice in France or just nice to eat?



Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
January 20, 2006, 16:28
Erik Johansen
As far as I'm aware the Nice, France link is totally spurious. The biscuits were first made in Victorian times and were made with 'NICE' on them, because they were nice(!)- not as good for dipping in tea as 'Rich Tea' though! . But, apparently even people of the time thought there was some link with France, largely because French customs were considered trendy at the time.(And I hate the word 'trendy' but you get my drift.)
January 20, 2006, 21:33
Kalleh
Hrrmmph...with all my pontificating about our not having letter boxes, just today I went to mail a letter in my office building and there was a slot in the wall with the sign: "Letter Box." It wasn't even a box! Roll Eyes
January 21, 2006, 05:37
zmježd
Maybe the box with the letters was on the other side of the slot.


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
January 21, 2006, 08:19
wordcrafter
mass of maneuver – something held in reserve, to be used when and where the appropriate becomes clear
A rarely used phrase, used chiefly in military parlance, but available for metaphorical use.

We'll skip the earliest cite found (1918), and OED's earliest (1919), and instead give a Churchill passage that wonderfully explains the concept and its importance. The French General has just detailed the disasterous state of the battlefield.

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January 21, 2006, 09:36
Royston
Am I the only one who finds it impossible to spell manoeuvre without looking it up? I doubt it. There's something about having all those vowels in a big heap that sends me off the spelling rails. And then there's dairrheoa diarrhoeia diarhoeia...well you get the idea.

Perhaps I'd best adopt US spelling, which seem a bit easier.
January 21, 2006, 09:37
Royston
Sorry, me again. How do I get my location included in my posts?
January 21, 2006, 15:58
shufitz
Good question, Royston. Sinnce other new members may run into the same question I'll put a response over in the "Tips for New Members" thread in our "Community" forum.

Edit: Done. Royston, look at Community thread titled "Tips for Newcomers". This was written to replace the thread titled "Tips for New Members", which has become somewhat cumbersome, and should be ignored.

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January 22, 2006, 09:04
wordcrafter
mass producer – a manufacture producing in large quantities, typically by automated process

Our quote today, referring to Henry Ford's virulent anti-semitism, illustrates both the literal and extended meanings of the term.
January 22, 2006, 13:30
Royston
Thanks, Shufitz. The new thread is full of useful stuff. I should now be revealing my fine location.
January 22, 2006, 16:41
Kalleh
Wow...another English poster! You really must join us at our Wordcraft Convention in Birmingham next October.

I suppose you don't know the Beatles, correct? Just in case, I thought I'd ask! Wink
January 22, 2006, 17:23
shufitz
You're welcome, Royston. I mean that in the double sense of responding to your thank you and of welcoming you to our board-slash-madhouse.
April 02, 2006, 17:18
wordnerd
Wordcrafter misspoke, and Royston corrected him:It seems that OED's editors made the same error, with like correction. This from p. 60 of my current reading, Lynda Mugglestone's Lost for Words, based on her review of comments on the proof-sheets for the original OED: