As the person who suggested the book (and the only one who has read it before - though I'm looking forward immensely to reading it again) I thought I'd kick off a couple of general questions to get people thinking right from the start.

Here's the first one, first couple actually.

One of the things I love about the Flashman books is that I think the language captures not only the character of the man but the character of the era. For me right from page one (which I have just reread) it just gets the tone perfectly.
The questions that arise for me are

1. Do others agree with me on the language suiting the man?

2.How about the language capturing the era?

3.Can anyone in the USA actually understand it?
I will of course be happy to provide a translation service for a very modest fee.

Now that I've gotten into the book, I can finally answer some of these questions, Bob.

I find the language a bit hard, even the American southern accents. In my own books I usually circle words that I don't know, and look them up later, though I can't with this library book. There are a few words that are either too British or too "in character with the era" for me, though I can usually pick up the meaning from the context.

I think a list of some of the words and language in the book would be a great discussion. For example, he talks about his weight in stones. Until this board, I didn't know that the British use that terminology for weight.

Given the well-publicised problems in our countries with obesity, I'm surprised more Americans don't refer to their weight in stones. After all, "I weigh 20 stones" doesn't sound so bad as "I weigh 280 pounds".

quote:

"I weigh 20 stones"

In this construction, does one typically say stone or stones?

I'd say stone.

But, to get on topic for a moment, if you'll forgive me, the books are not all that easy for a British reader. There are a lot of words that are no longer in use here and quite often I find that I have to figure out a word from context. GMF rarely gives meanings for words unless they are clearly of foreign origin and being used by F as a way of showing off. It isn't all that clear in this particular book but Flashman's claim to have only two things he's actually good at - fornication and languages - is a common theme throughout the books. At different times he picks up Arabic, Urdu, Punjabi, (although speakers of these two assure me that having learned one the other is very similar in its spoken form), Sioux, assorted European languages, Russian, Malagasy, Amharic and various African tribal languages.

I may have that list slightly wrong and there may well be others but the gist of it is that Flashman picks up a working knowledge of languages extraordinarily quickly.

And does anyone have any thoughts on how well the language is used to draw us a picture of Flashman or of the era in which the books are set.

I find it hard to comment, because F himself is British and, at the point to which I've read, the action has only just come to America. However, it seems highly inconguous that members of the KKK, even its leaders, would be sophisticated enough to choose as noms de guerre the Greek names of the Fates. The KKK, as I understand it, was far from a sophisticated or educated group.

I do recall the word "shanghaied" being used, which (I think) is an anachronism at the time at which the events are set (though not at the time at which F is recalling them). See here.

Remember Shu, FM is talking about the first KKK. The one that existed from the end of the Civil war for about a decade, and which was abolished by an act of Congress. This KKK seemed to have a more "diverse" membership than the reconstituted one of the 1920s up to the present. I don't find it much of a stretch that some disaffected college-educated folks might belong.

quote:

I do recall the word "shanghaied" being used, which (I think) is an anachronism at the time at which the events are set (though not at the time at which F is recalling them).

I don't think we can blame F for that. Although the cite in the Toponyms thread is from the NYT of 1860, that doesn't mean that it wasn't used verbally for some time before getting into print in a form that we can now find.

quote:

that doesn't mean that it wasn't used verbally for some time before getting into print in a form that we can now find.

And that OED couldn't find, but that somehow Flashman managed to find (even though he was not at the US seacoast, where the term was used)? Well, I suppose it's possible, but I wouldn't say it's realistic.

What saves Flashman, however, is that he is using the term much later, in reminiscence.

But as you say it's not an anachronism by the time Flashman is recalling these events it's not unreasonable that he would use it, is it?

I think we need to take some of the book with a grain of salt though. I had the same question about the KKK, Shu. However, that said, it doesn't bother me at all. After all, it does say "Flashman and the Angel of the Lord: A Novel" on my book.

I am thoroughly enjoying it.

So did you all finish the book? I did find the language to be a little difficult, just from the standpoint of it being so flowery. Is that the right term? I think so.

I never did get far into the book, though. Sorry. I'll try harder next time.

Is it time for another book, you think?