There’s an interesting word used locally to describe the core business area of Providence, our state capital. The word is “downcity.” Even though it’s been in daily use here for at least ten years, the word itself cannot be found in AHD, OED, MW, or Dictionary.com, which I consulted.

Several years ago, the mayor of Providence instituted major improvements which resulted in the city being designated a "Renaissance City." The mayor was renowned for puffing up the benefits offered by the city to developers. As part of his plan for pushing the city, the mayor asked the local media to stop using the alliterative, commonly-used term "downtown" when they mentioned Providence. Instead he wanted them to call Providence's core area "downcity." He hoped this would help convince outside investors Providence was a good buy (especially if the mayor got his cut). The mayor’s arbitrary tax policies apparently “convinced” media executives using the word was worth their while. Soon viewers and readers were deluged with references to “downcity.” A short time later, the mayor was found guilty of graft and served five years in the gray-bar hotel, but media continue to use “downcity” instead of the more widely used “downtown.”

Has anyone heard “downcity” being used as a synonym for “downtown” in their area, or is "downcity" strictly local? And does anyone (other than a politician or developer) see any reason to replace "downtown" with “downcity?”

I've often wondered where "downcity" came from. I've never heard it outside of Providence.


Did you know that there is a Graybar building in NYC? I don't believe that it has ever housed a hotel, though.

Gray-bar hotel is one of many slang terms for the big house, the hoosegow, the slammer.

I once pointed out, in a letter to the Journal, the many dichotomies inherent in the mayor's view of downcity. An example, you couldn't burn leaves but the city could set the river on fire (Waterfire celebration).

I've certainly never heard "downcity" and "downtown" itself is not used here in the UK. We'd talk about the "town (or city) centre" instead.

I've heard downtown, but never downcity.

I used to live in SF, and I found it incredibly arrogant when people from there would call it THE city. I thought that they were holding it sacred, above any other city. However, I have since learned that where there is a big city, e.g., Chicago, NY, LA, people refer to THE city, differentiating it from the suburbs...or so I tell myself.

I called up "downcity" and found it was almost exclusively a Providence lineup. It's incomprehensible to me that the local media has fallen for this ridiculous coinage.

I've heard usage similar to Kalleh's example.

Perhaps the mayor of Provi-dense has Down syndrome?

Perhaps he does have "Down Syndrome" but it didn't stop him from, fresh out of prison after five year, getting a local radio talk show.

I assume you all may have heard the term "kite a check." It means to use a worthless check in a complicated bank scam involving multiple accounts to scam the bank before the check is found to be no good.

During the period that the mayor was pushing his pet project ("downcity"), I came across a reference to "kiting the town" in a book about the westward expansion of the railroads in the late 1800s. I've tried to find that reference or the book online but cannot do so. Does anyone have access to not-readily-available databases that could furnish me with the title?

In Cincinnati, where I grew up, and two smaller cities--Utica and Binghamton-- in Upstate New York where I've previously lived, the core of the city was called "downtown." In Philadelphia, it is called Center City. In Pittsburgh, they call it "downtown" but say it "dahntahn," incidently.

I've heard people in New Jersey say they were "going into the city," meaning New York City--Manhattan.

But I've never heard of a "downcity." It sounds like a place where everybody is depressed. I'm glad to hear they threw the mayor in jail for this fraud.

Wordmatic

I've not heard "downcity" used, either.

We have an area in Columbus that is called The Short North, and it is the area just north of Downtown . . . isn't that interesting, to call it that? I've wondered if it is more common than just here.

Doesn't Chicago have a Near North side?

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But I've never heard of a "downcity." It sounds like a place where everybody is depressed

From a political standpoint, the nice thing about "downcity" is you can adjust the map to only include the "good" sections of town.
For example, South Providence, which directly abuts "downcity" was never mentioned in the same breath because it really was "depressed."
However, the East Side, which was the area across the river (where the well-to-do live), was always included.
The State House, which was on the hill overlooking the city, was always part of "downcity" but the strip clubs directly behind City Hall mysteriusly became invisible.

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Originally posted by arnie:
"downtown" itself is not used here in the UK.

What about the old pop song Downtown by Petula Clark? Isn't she British?

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What about the old pop song Downtown by Petula Clark? Isn't she British?

It has been known for British artistes to sing about matters American - and vice versa.

But I can assure you, Pet. Clarke notwithstanding, you would get a blank look from most Britons if you were to go up to one and ask how you get "downtown". As a travel agent I used often to be asked for a "downtown" hotel, so I had a better idea than many of the meaning of the term. Even so, I would normally seek additional information before making a booking since "downtown" or city-centre hotels, are often not the best choice in British cities.

Tony Hatch (also British) wrote Downtown. Pet Clark was the singer. According to the Wikipedia page the song "had been inspired by a recent first trip to New York City".

I wonder, if he'd been to Providence instead, would Downcity have been a hit?

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you would get a blank look from most Britons if you were to go up to one and ask how you get "downtown".

A search of the Guardian's site gives 2962 hits, as recently as today, where an article begins "Duke's pub in downtown Cairo is ..." The paper apparently started using that term in 1999, and is now running at better than one-use-a-day.

I'm suspecting that British ignorance (of the term, that is ) is not quite so profound.

Maybe not amongst Graunaid readers. But amongst normal people...

shu,

A glance at the the first search page of the Guardian site you linked to shows that every reference is to a city or town outside the UK. I didn't look at any other pages. As we've already both said, it's not a word used in the UK.

Interesting. In the less-than-seven-months of 2008, it gets 153 hits in The Times (though of course some of them are inapt).

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Doesn't Chicago have a Near North side?

It most certainly does, along with many other great neighborhoods. If you include the suburbs, it also has a North Shore, which is where we live.

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But I can assure you, Pet. Clarke notwithstanding, you would get a blank look from most Britons if you were to go up to one and ask how you get "downtown".

BobHale contributed this limerick on May 1 to the game "Aire's Cross."

When trying to deal with hair's loss,
There's a salon downtown in Aire's Cross
That's recovered the hair
Of his honour the mayor
And are trying to treat the mayor's boss.

Please note the location in the second line that some have said is never used in the UK.

And Aire's Cross is where...?

The confusion is that we would never use it to refer to any place in the UK. If it is the form used in the country where the city or town we are speaking of is located, then we would use that country's preferred form.

So I would say "downtown Miami" but I wouldn't say "downtown Birmingham" (unless I were talking about the Birmingham in Alabama, of course).

Aire's Cross is in Erewhon - I don't know what the local usage is.

But it seems to me that there's an element missing in this discussion.

The small town I grew up in did not have a downtown, or a city centre. It had a cluster of businesses, but no one ever said they were going downtown. They may have said "I'm going shopping" or "I'm going to the Monkey Ward", but there was no concept of downtown. Only in cities and towns where there were two or more shopping areas does the idea of downtown have meaning.

And of course, as urban areas have changed, the downtown area often is only a marginal shopping area - more often it is home to municipal buildings and other offices that can't easily move - with many closed storefronts.

These days the proper GovSpeak is something like "central business district".

By the way, do any of you know why the streetlights in uptown NYC aren't as bright as those on Wall Street?.

In fact, Aire's Cross is not in Erehwon - for all that it has no Google presence.

It is, in fact, in the USA - as this will show https://wordcraft.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/410600694/m/2541025435

Quote "...By the way, do any of you know why the streetlights in uptown NYC aren't as bright as those on Wall Street?..."

Where's uptown? Anywhere near to "updoc"? I know what that is, thanks to Bugs Bunny.

Uptown is the opposite direction to downcity. It's brighter on Wall Street because everything, including light, flows downhill to those greedy SOBs.

I don't think Aire's Cross is in the US
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Aire
which makes me still wonder why it has a non-existent (inthe UK) downtown, according to Bob's limerick.

At least regarding NYC, the usual names for areas have somewhat differing usages.

In the legal/financial arena, there were two primary areas: the Wall Street area (anything below City Hall) and Midtown (from 42nd Street to 59th - where Central Park starts).

There are dozens of other areas: Tribeca, Greenwich Village, the Upper East (and West) Sides, Dumbo, Park Slope, SoHo, and on and on.

I don't really recall hearing Downtown and Uptown much (notwithstanding Billy Joel), though Midtown was very common.

When folks in the 'burbs wanted to say that they were going into NYC, the usual way was to simply refer to "the City".

The lights on Wall Street are brighter because they are closer to the Battery (a small area, formerly the site of a fort, on the southern tip of Manhattan Island).

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Originally posted by Valentine:
The lights on Wall Street are brighter because they are closer to the Battery

< groans and grins >

By the way, since you mention the origin of the Battery, what about the Bowery?

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The confusion is that we would never use it to refer to any place in the UK.

So let me get this straight, Bob. You, in the UK, would never use downtown for any place in the UK, but you would use it for other places.

My. The English do draw fine distinctions, don't they?

what about the Bowery?

Perhaps Leo Gorcey and Huntz Hall know about that one.

What I don't understand is how a term describing something in the UK on May 1 is not applicable at the end of July.

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Originally posted by Kalleh:

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The confusion is that we would never use it to refer to any place in the UK.

So let me get this straight, Bob. You, in the UK, would never use downtown for any place in the UK, but you would use it for other places.

My. The English do draw fine distinctions, don't they?

It's not drawing a distiction. If you call the city centre of Chicago "downtown" then that's what it's called so that's what I call it. That's the correct designation. There is no city, town, village or hamlet anywhere in the UK where the inhabitants use the word "downtown" to describe part of it. So that's not what it's called, so I don't call it that.
We know that Americans use the word because of the movies. SO when we talk about American cities it seems to be proper to use the word the Americans would use.

When I think about it, we do the same thing.

If someone in the U.S. is taking pleasure in someone else's misery, we call that Schadenfreude. However, if the person lives outside the U.S. and is taking pleasure in someone else's misery, we call that epicaricacy. So I guess you could say we draw fine distinctions too.

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However, if the person lives outside the U.S. and is taking pleasure in someone else's misery, we call that epicaricacy.

I didn't realise that Chicago had left the Union...

Oh, I guess that was American humor, Richard. Sorry you didn't understand.

As long as we are drawing fine distinctions...

Chicago never joined the Union, and cannot, directly, leave it. The State of Illinois, did, and could.

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Oh, I guess that was American humor, Richard. Sorry you didn't understand.

Oh I think I understood it - it was a form or irony suggesting that Americans don't use the word epicaricacy - an expression I happen to know has been used more than once in Chicago.

Whenever I see the headline "Where Do I Go?" I remember the old joke about the American tourist (probably a Blonde) who, just after arriving at Heathrow Airport saw a sign sayiing "British Subjects" over one doorway and "Foreigners" over another doorway. Of course she asked, "Where Do I Go?

Apocryphal, no doubt.

I hope they directed her to the loo.