Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
When do names change? Login/Join
 
Member
posted
One of the indicators of how Oregon's culture changed during my time there can be seen in the name, "filbert." Old-time Oregonians use that name when describing what all the move-ins call a "hazelnut." Even old time filbert growers now market them as hazelnuts.

What terms have changed in areas where you live?
When and why did they change?
 
Posts: 4431 | Location: In a cornfield in central IndianaReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Kalleh
posted Hide Post
Good question, Geoff. I am wondering if it became hazelnuts because of baking hazelnut cakes and other desserts.

I am still confused as to what people around here call a soft drink, which is what I call it. Sometimes people call it coke, no matter what it is (7-Up, Dr. Pepper, etc.). Or "pop." Or "soda."

When I was growing up, "athletic shoes" were called "tennis shoes."
 
Posts: 23277 | Location: Chicago, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Kalleh:

When I was growing up, "athletic shoes" were called "tennis shoes."

Or sneakers? Humor writer Patrick McManus wrote a story about his childhood in which he and a friend got new "tinner shoes," a mondegreen he plays to good effect in his story.
 
Posts: 4431 | Location: In a cornfield in central IndianaReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Kalleh:
Good question, Geoff. I am wondering if it became hazelnuts because of baking hazelnut cakes and other desserts.

I am still confused as to what people around here call a soft drink, which is what I call it. Sometimes people call it coke, no matter what it is (7-Up, Dr. Pepper, etc.). Or "pop." Or "soda."

When I was growing up, "athletic shoes" were called "tennis shoes."


I was thinking about the soft drink one, too, Kalleh. Where I grew up, it wasn't uncommon to hear people ask for a "tonic" or "soda". When I moved to Indiana, I think people said "pop" there. Moving back home again, tonic has pretty much disappeared and I think people still don't know what to call "soft drinks". I know that I often have to stop and think about what to call them.

I have the same problem now with the word "market". That's what we called the place where we went to buy groceries when I was young. When I moved to Fort Wayne and said that, people thought I meant a "farmer's market" and I switched to using the term "grocery store". For me market and grocery store mean the same thing.

One of the things I think I am noticing about this is that we now feel a need to become more specific when saying something. So, if I want a soda, soft drink, etc., I might ask for a diet Coke or an orange Crush. If I am going grocery shopping, I might say I am going to Martin's or Walmart's.

Geoff, I noticed that about filberts becoming hazelnuts, too. I don't know why that happened. Have you also noticed that they are trying to make prunes, "dried plums"? LOL It seems at least in part, changing a name can imply an upscale effort, an attempt to make something seem more exclusive and/or more desirable. Of course, the cost is often increased along with the effort. In the case of prunes, it could be trying to get away from the negative connotations associated with that word.


"Wishing in gladness and in safety, may all beings be at ease." ~from the Metta Sutta
 
Posts: 442Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Upscale branding seems to be the reason for such changes, Sattva. What you once called a market has been rebranded to "marketplace," with higher prices for the same old stuff.

Speaking of dried plums, why do we called dried grapes raisins? In French, a raisin is a grape; "raisin sec" is the dried version. Bethree5, you're a Francophone - do you have an explanation why English perverted French?
 
Posts: 4431 | Location: In a cornfield in central IndianaReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Proofreader
posted Hide Post
https://www.wsj.com/articles/t...f-fulsome-1494594558


Give a man a fish and he can eat for one day; give a man a fishing pole and he will find an excuse to never work again.
Nollidj is power.
 
Posts: 5988 | Location: Rhode IslandReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Proof, I can't access the article. I'm not a WSJ subscriber. Help!
 
Posts: 4431 | Location: In a cornfield in central IndianaReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Kalleh
posted Hide Post
Interesting, Proof. Here it is, Geoff:
quote:
It has been a fulsome week on Capitol Hill.

On Monday, former acting Attorney General Sally Yates testified before a Senate Judiciary subcommittee investigating Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. “I intend my answers today to be as fulsome and comprehensive as possible while respecting my legal and ethical boundaries,” ran her opening statement.

Then on Tuesday evening, after news broke that President Donald Trump had fired FBI Director James Comey, Sen. Bob Corker (R., Tenn.) released this statement: “It is essential that ongoing investigations are fulsome and free of political interference until their completion.”

The way that Ms. Yates and Mr. Corker used “fulsome,” to mean “very full” or “complete,” raised some eyebrows among usage sticklers, who have long decried what they see as improper applications of the word. When Ms. Yates said “fulsome,” Bryan Garner, editor of “Garner’s Modern English Usage,” responded on Twitter, “Oh dear.”

Mr. Garner recommends that “fulsome” only be used in its “traditional, disparaging sense,” meaning “excessively lavish” or “offensive to good taste.” Thus, “fulsome praise” should be understood as praise that is insincerely flattering, rather than simply abundant.

While what Mr. Garner calls the “loose usage” of “fulsome” has been on the increase in recent decades, it is in fact something of a revival of the word’s original meaning. When “fulsome” first entered the language in the 13th century, it meant “copious, plentiful,” etymologically linked to the word “full.”

But that positive meaning underwent a peculiar historical transformation. By around 1500, “fulsome” could mean “corpulent,” “obnoxious” or “tedious.” A century later, it continued its downward descent, into “sickening” or “excessively effusive.” And there things stood, until the meaning started moving back to neutral or positive senses in the 20th century, no doubt influenced by the resemblance of “fulsome” to “full.”

Linguists call a positive-to-negative semantic shift “pejoration,” and the reverse process is “melioration.” While many words have undergone such radical shifts (“nice” used to mean “stupid” or “timid,” for instance), “fulsome” is remarkable for its full pendulum swing from positive to negative and back again.

The dueling interpretations can lead to ambiguity: Is “fulsome praise” a good or bad thing? Usually context will clarify the situation. When Secretary of State Rex Tillerson described a recent telephone call between Mr. Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin as “very fulsome,” we can assume he meant the conversation was very detailed and not full of insincere flattery (though perhaps it was both).


Mr. Garner puts “fulsome” in the category of “skunked terms”: words undergoing a shift in meaning. (Other examples include “effete,” “enormity,” “nonplused” and “bemused.”) When a word has become “skunked,” Mr. Garner advises, it is often best to avoid it, since either the old or the new usage is sure to bother someone.

But given its currency among the political class, the so-old-it’s-new meaning of “fulsome” will no doubt continue to flourish in abundance.
 
Posts: 23277 | Location: Chicago, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of arnie
posted Hide Post
Language Log has an article from 2009 on fulsome.


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
 
Posts: 10927 | Location: LondonReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of bethree5
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Geoff:
Speaking of dried plums, why do we called dried grapes raisins? In French, a raisin is a grape; "raisin sec" is the dried version. Bethree5, you're a Francophone - do you have an explanation why English perverted French?

Such an interesting question, Geoff. The etymology of "grape" seems to be Germanic-- a departure from the original term 'winberige' (wine berry) in favor of a term denoting the plucking of the berry via hook [krappen]. So English, typically, draws on both languages, creating a new [Germanic] English word for the fresh berry (grape), & re-imagining the French term 'raisin'in its sense as 'raisin sec'(dried grape, i.e., raisin.)
 
Posts: 2049 | Location: As they say at 101.5FM: Not New York... Not Philadelphia... PROUD TO BE NEW JERSEY!Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of bethree5
posted Hide Post
Great info on fulsome. I was puzzled when I heard it in those recent news cites. Not because I knew what it meant! I so seldom had seen the word in print that I had a vague memory of coming across it as a kid reading old-fashioned books, & deciding it must mean buxom!
 
Posts: 2049 | Location: As they say at 101.5FM: Not New York... Not Philadelphia... PROUD TO BE NEW JERSEY!Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of arnie
posted Hide Post
When I hear "fulsome" I think of the episode of QI where Jo Brand (a ... um, big lady) was complaining of the inconvenience of having large breasts. and Stephen Fry complimented her by saying that she had a "fulsome pair of funbags". This visibly took Jo aback, but she recovered by saying that such a remark was unlike Stephen (who is well-known to be gay) and that he may be "on the turn".


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
 
Posts: 10927 | Location: LondonReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Or he may have fond mammaries of having been breast fed?
 
Posts: 4431 | Location: In a cornfield in central IndianaReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Kalleh
posted Hide Post
Oh, arnie, that is hilarious! Shu just loves QI so I hear it from time to time and enjoy it so much.
 
Posts: 23277 | Location: Chicago, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata  
 


Copyright © 2002-12