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On language log today Mark Liberman discusses this
from Graham Young. The post is interesting and you should read it, but the first thing that struck me has nothing to do with the discussion there. It was "palls in comparison". I have always heard this as "pales in comparison". Which do you think is the correct form? Any idea of the origin? Palls in comparison has 1690 Ghits while "pales" has over 1.1 million so it looks like "pales" has it. "No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson. | ||
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| <Asa Lovejoy> |
"Pales" seems right to me. | ||
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| Member |
It's pales in comparison. Pall in comparison makes no sense. I think someone just made a mistake, perhaps a typo, and it spread. | |||
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| Junior Member |
Actually, "pall in comparison" makes much more sense, because "to pall" means primarily "to become less interesting or attractive," a specifically comparative verb; whereas, the primary meaning of "to pale" is "to turn pale or paler, as if in fear," which obviously bears little relevance to a typical comparison. Furthermore, it is very easy to imagine how the word "pall" -- verging on archaic -- would come to be confused with "pale" -- a much more common word especially in the cold English-speaking regions of Europe dominated by pale white people. | |||
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| Member |
Interesting, bowiez. I've always used pales, because (it seems to me) that something that is paler is less colorful, and therefore less interesting. Your analysis turns "palls in comparison" into a bit of a pleonasm: if something is less interesting, it per se is so "in comparison" to something. I do use "palls", from time to time, but not with "in comparison". There's also the fact that "pales" is the much more commonly used word, and thus is more likely to be understood. I do wonder when the two phrases first appeared, and how they were used. By the way, from one newbie to another, welcome. Have you looked at the current Bluffing Game? | |||
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Member |
Furthermore, it is very easy to imagine how the word "pall" -- verging on archaic -- would come to be confused with "pale" -- a much more common word Many of these kinds of constructions are a side-effect of the spell checking function of many programs these days. Some people simply accept that they have misspelled a word and choose the first option to replace it from the spell checking function. (Cf. the search and replace thread hereabouts recently.) —Ceci n'est pas un seing. | |||
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| Member |
zmježd: The phenomenon you describe certainly exists. Book editors and publishers have begun to rely on spell checking far too much, sometimes with amusing results. I recently saw, in a highly successful novel, "tubgoat" in place of "tugboat". But I don't think that explains "palls in comparison". What spell checker would prompt for an alternative to "pales in comparison"? | |||
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| Member |
But I don't think that explains "palls in comparison". What spell checker would prompt for an alternative to "pales in comparison"? You're probably right. I was thinking that they may have misspelled pales, but I find it unlikely in light of your thought on the subject. —Ceci n'est pas un seing. | |||
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| Member |
"The milkmaid tried several sizes of buckets: pails in comparison." The biggest problem with spell checkers (other than their idiotic grammar components) is false positives. Most would not barf at palls, pales or pails, because all are perfectly good words. Some are getting better at distinguishing "to", "two" and "too", but none are as good as an intelligent editor. Come to think of it, what spell checker database would include "tubgoat", though? | |||
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| <Proofreader> |
Not quite on subject, but apparently the AP relied too much on a computer to check text for offensive words. Thus they reported two days ago that Tyson Gay had made the Olympic team. However, the computer changed the headline to state that Tyson Homosexual had made it. | ||
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| Member |
Well, the OED Online's definition of pall is to "become less interesting, attractive, or appetizing, esp. through familiarity" (emphasis mine). Interesting that your definition of pale uses paler, definitely a comparative word. The first definition of pale in the OED online is "To grow pale or dim; to lose colour or brightness; to become pale in comparison. Now esp.: to become pale in the face from shock or fear. Also fig." There's that comparison word again. And it can be used figuratively. It also gives a second definition.
I haven't seen an OED citation for pale in comparison, though it does use it in the definition. And pale in comparison is awfully close to pale into insignificance. Pale, pall, appall (appal), and apale (appale) all seem to be related. Pall is an aphetic (I had to look that word up) of appall, and one of the obsolete definitions is "to become pale or dim." The OED says the etymology of apale is "doubtful."
As usual, the more I learn, the less I know. I have to grudgingly admit there is some basis for pall in comparison, though I still think pale in comparison makes more sense and probably stemmed from pale into insignificance.This message has been edited. Last edited by: tinman, | |||
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Member |
The top hit, Bob, is your post! | |||
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