There are a number of words where the "separated" form is unable to stand alone.
For example, while we may speak of someone being "disgruntled," I do not ever recall seeing a happy person called "gruntled."
But I just came across an interesting "separt" (my term for a divisible word element): competitive eaters are sometimes called called "gurgitators," which seems like a back-formation from regurgitate.
Any other examples of inseparables? Or separts?
RJA
May 27, 2009, 19:09
<Proofreader>
Would you call a person who is not in disguise "cognito'?
May 27, 2009, 19:28
Robert Arvanitis
Absolutely! Added to the list!
RJA
May 27, 2009, 22:30
wordmatic
Is someone who is not inept, ept?
Wordmatic
May 28, 2009, 02:19
arnie
quote:
For example, while we may speak of someone being "disgruntled," I do not ever recall seeing a happy person called "gruntled."
"Dis-" here is an intensifier, not a negative, so someone who is gruntled would not be happy, but less so than someone who was disgruntled. "Gruntle" means, or meant, rather, to grunt like a pig, which unhappy people are sometimes wont to do.
"Inept" comes from the Latin ineptus meaning "not apt", so the opposite would be "apt".This message has been edited. Last edited by: arnie,
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
May 28, 2009, 04:17
Robert Arvanitis
Arnie: Thanks for that! So one might say "He is gruntled, and will soon reach fully disgruntled?"
By the way, a few I've collected over time: Deracinated Disgruntled Disgusted Disheveled Feckless (Scots call an effective person "feckful") Gormless Immaculate Impeccable Impugn Inchoate Incognito Incorrigible Ineffable Inept Inert Inessive Inexecrable Inevitable Inexorable Inflammable Intrepid (although trepidation) Invincible Reckless (cf. careless) Ungainly Unkempt (can a barber make one "kempt?") Unremitting
RJA
May 28, 2009, 06:38
goofy
quote:
Inchoate
This is borrowed from Latin "incohāre" (to begin) - the "in" is not a negative but means "into" (as in "inundation"). It's also used as an intensifier.
quote:
Impugn Inessive Inflammable
The "im" and "in" in these words is not negative; it's the same suffix as the "in" in "inchoate".This message has been edited. Last edited by: goofy,
May 28, 2009, 06:45
arnie
A lot of the words on the list come from other languages, principally Latin, where we have borrowed the negative sense, but the positive never made it into the English language.
Two take a couple of examples at random, "ineffable" comes from the Latin ineffabilis, "unutterable", although its Latin opposite, effabilis is not used in English. Similarly with "dishevelled", it comes from Old French descheveler, meaning "to disarrange the hair"; the des- prefix meant "apart" and chevel meant "hair".
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
May 28, 2009, 07:13
Robert Arvanitis
The esteemed Wordcraft community has of course identified the linguistic structures, but that still leaves the original humorous appeal of the "separts," as in:
"We shall grapple with the ineffable, and see if we may not eff it after all." — Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
RJA
May 28, 2009, 09:11
<Proofreader>
You can be uncouth but can you be couth?
An object can be undulating but if it stops is it dulating?
If we have ungulates, do we also have gulates
May 28, 2009, 09:29
Robert Arvanitis
Proofreader:
Not sure I am, but in "The Land of Cockaygne" we read
"And the larks that are so couth Fly right down into man’s mouth,"
Haynes Goddard of Cincinnati writes to suggest that the verb disgruntle means ''to deprive of the opportunity to register dissatisfaction and complaint'' -- that is, to deny the release of a good, loud grunt, and thereby to make the would-be gruntler sullen. We don't know; the O.E.D. mysteriously lists disgruntle as appearing in 1682 and meaning ''to put into sulky dissatisfaction or ill humor.'' You might think that if the old gruntle meant ''complain,'' then disgruntle would mean ''to stop from complaining,'' but language is not always logical.
I'm not convinced; I'd say dis- is used as an intensive.
Nice to know I was right about Wodehouse, although Safire doesn't say who was gruntled.
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
May 28, 2009, 13:34
goofy
quote:
disgruntle
I agree with Arnie. According to the OED, the dis here is an intensifier. Safire doesn't mention this, even though he apparently looked up the word.
quote:
An object can be undulating but if it stops is it dulating?
Latin unda "wave"
quote:
If we have ungulates, do we also have gulates
Latin ungula "hoof"
May 28, 2009, 18:21
wordmatic
The word "gormless" is interesting. It means, stupid; slow to understand. But "gorm" means axle grease as a noun, or, as a verb, "To daub, as the hands or clothing, with gorm; to daub with anything sticky. [Prov. Eng.]" according to Webster's Unabridged.
The two words do not appear to be related. Someone who is intelligent and quick cannot be said to be "gorm."
Wordmatic
May 28, 2009, 18:31
Robert Arvanitis
Might it be a quick witted person was "gormful," or "gormy," or even "gormalicious?"
RJA
May 28, 2009, 20:37
Kalleh
I've never even heard of "gormless" before, but I like it. The OED defines it as "wanting sense or discernment," which is a bit vague. Wanting discernment?
As for couth, we've discussed it before, but I think this is the best discussion .
May 29, 2009, 22:52
wordmatic
Oh, I like gormalicious! That would be a brilliant person daubed all over with axle grease! No. Chocolate syrup.
WM
May 31, 2009, 19:37
Kalleh
Ah, and "Get Fuzzy" just presented a new one in their comic today: There is an incognito, but not a cognito.
"Gruntle" means, or meant, rather, to grunt like a pig, which unhappy people are sometimes wont to do.