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I am in the third book of Stieg Larsson's trilogy and of course am enjoying it immensely.

On page 147 he offers a "linguistic riddle." That is, he says this:
quote:
It was the Greeks who coined the term "Amazon." The word literally means "without breast." It is said that in order to facilitate the drawing of a bow, the female's right breast was removed, either in early childhood or with a red-hot iron after she became an adult. Even though the Greek physicians Hippocrates and Galen are said to have agreed that this operation would enhance the ability to use weapons, it is doubtful whether such operations were actually performed. Herein lies a linguistic riddle - whether the prefix "a-" in their language does indeed mean "without." It has been suggested that it means the opposite - that an Amazon was a woman with especially large breast. Nor is there a single example in any museum of a drawing, amulet, or statue of a woman without her right breast, which should have been a common motif had the legend about breast amputation been based on fact.
I assume he is all wet, but I'd love some input on this.
 
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I'm confused - the prefix a- does mean "without" in Greek, so I don't know what he's talking about.
 
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Wikipedia calls it privative a- (I'd never heard the word privitive before). The OED Online says the "without breast" is "prob. pop. etym. of an unknown foreign word" (see below).

quote:
[a. L. Amazon, a. Gr. {Alenis}{mu}{alpha}{zeta}{gwacu}{nu}, -{goacu}{nu}{alpha}; explained by the Greeks from {alenis} priv. + {mu}{alpha}{zeta}-{goacu}{fsigma} a breast (in connexion with the fable that they destroyed the right breast so as not to interfere with the use of the bow), but prob. pop. etym. of an unknown foreign word.]


Online Etymological Dictionary says the same thing:

quote:
late 14c., from Gk. Amazon "one of a race of female warriors in Scythia," probably from an unknown non-I.E. word, but in folk etymology long derived from a- "without" + mazos "breasts," hence the story that the Amazons cut or burned off one breast so they could draw bowstrings more efficiently. The river in South America (originally called by the Sp. Rio Santa Maria de la Mar Dulce) rechristened by Francisco de Orellana, 1541, after an encounter with female warriors of the Tapuyas (or, as some say, beardless, long-haired male tribesmen; still others hold that the name is a corruption of a native word in Tupi or Guarani meaning "wave").

Both Wikipedia and The Straight Dope have articles on Amazon and they both debunk the "without breast" etymology, saying the etymology is unknown. There are several suggested etymologies, as the following quote from The Straight Dope Shows:
quote:
An alternative etymology rivaled the "breastless" one in popularity in ancient times, but is not so well known today: a- + maza ("without barley bread"). The idea here is that the Amazons, as barbaric nomads, did not sow fields as the civilized Greeks did, so they were condemned to eat meat instead of grain products. The evidence in favor of this one is no better than the other.

If the word didn't mean "breastless" and it didn't mean "breadless," what did it mean? The ancient Greeks and Romans offered many other etymologies, all speculative, suggesting that the "breastless" etymology just wasn't cutting it. In the last couple hundred years, there has been a revival in the cottage industry of making up new origins for the name. Indeed Amazon has had more proposed etymologies than any other word I know by far. Here's a selection of ancient and modern attempts:

Greek a-massein ("unapproachable"), a-mangion ("manless"), ama-hazo ("with honor"), ama-zoonais ("with belts [for cinching armor]"), ama-zoone ("with belts [for cinching dresses]"), ama-zoosai ("living together"), Amazo-nes ("daughters of [somebody named] Amazo"); Old Iranian hemeh-zen ("all women") or ha-mazan ("warrior"); Caucasian amaze ("youth"); Hebrew ammitz ("strong") or zouheh ("fallen woman"); Mongolian aeme-zaïne ("excellent woman"); Gothic magath ("virgin"); undifferentiated Germanic metze ("slut"); Sanskrit Uma-soona ("children of Uma [an Indian goddess]"); Armenian ama-zon ("children of the moon goddess"); Phoenician am-azon ("mother-lord"); or Slavic omuzhony ("masculine women").

That quote shows that there is no real agreement that the A in Amazon is the prefix A-. The article is 5 pages long, but worth a quick read.
 
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Here's the part of Larsson's quote I don't get.
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Herein lies a linguistic riddle - whether the prefix "a-" in their language does indeed mean "without." It has been suggested that it means the opposite - that an Amazon was a woman with especially large breast.

By "their language" I guess he means the Amazon's language. But why should "a-" be a prefix in the Amazon's language? And why should it mean "large"?

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By "their language" I guess he means the Amazon's language.

Yes, that would be the question. What language did the Amazons speak? Herodotus placed them in Scythia / Sarmatia (modern Ukraine). It's thought that the Sarmatians spoke an Iranian language. Nobody can agree on an etymology for Amazon. For whatever it's worth, Herodotus says that the Amazons called themselves Oiorpata in their own language, meaning ανδροκτονοι (androktonoi) 'man-slaying' in Greek.


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
 
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They spoke English. Didn't you ever read Wonder Woman?
 
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By bizarre coincidence I was watching the original pilot episode of Wonder Woman with Lynda Carter only a couple of hours ago. I can confirm that not only did they speak English, they spoke American English. Oddly so did the Nazis.


"No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson.
 
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quote:
I'm confused - the prefix a- does mean "without" in Greek, so I don't know what he's talking about.
I think by "their language" he did mean Greek, but I wasn't sure either. If so, I think he could be saying (though we'll never know since he is dead) that through the years "a-" has been mistranslated. Now I am not saying I agree with him; I am just saying that's what I thought he meant.
 
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If mazos is "breast" in Greek, what's Mazola made from?


It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. -J. Krishnamurti
 
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As mazola is made from corn (US) or maize (the rest of the world), it's probably from that. And, maize is from Taino mahiz.Canola (made from rape seeds) is from Canadian oil, or so I've heard. Sounds better than rape oil, I suppose. On the other hand, Greek μαζα (maza) 'barley cake' and μαζος (mazos) 'nipple, pap'.


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ACH Food Companies, Inc.
quote:
History

In 1906 The Corn Products Refining Company of New York is formed by a merger of the leading corn refiners in the United States. In 1911, Mazola® is introduced to the market, the first cooking and salad oil made from corn.

The brand is first sold in Canada in 1919 when The Corn Products Refining Company, purchased a 55% interest in The Canada Starch Company. This was the start of 70 years of uninterrupted production of Mazola® Corn Oil at Cardinal Ontario. Sold in square, yellow tins, the new product is the first refined corn oil, made from 100% golden corn. The brand name, Mazola®, was derived from the New World word for corn – maize – and oil (emphasis mine).

The alt.usage.english FAQ
quote:
"Canola" is defined as any of several varieties of the rape plant having seeds that contain less than 2% erucic acid, and whose solid component contains less than 30 micromoles per gram of glucosinolates. (This has been the statutory definition in Canada since 1986.) If you ever come across rapeseed oil that is *not* canola, avoid it, because erucic acid causes heart lesions, and glucosinolates cause thyroid enlargement and poor feed conversion!

Dictionaries have variously explained "canola" as standing for "Canada oil, low acid", and as a blend of "Canada" and "colza". I imagine that "Mazola" (a brand name for corn [= "maize"] oil) had an influence.

Wikipedia
quote:
The name "canola" was derived from "Canadian oil, low acid" in 1978.

What is canola?
quote:
Its name is a combination of 'Canada' and 'oil' (Canadian oil low acid).
 
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Originally posted by zmježd:
On the other hand, Greek μαζα (μαζος ([i]mazos) 'nipple, pap'.

So, in very roundabout manner, the connection is there. Can one then be made to Ceres?
Since grain is related to sustenance just as is breast milk, it doesn't seem all that far-fetched, unless you're a patriarch-oriented theist.


It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. -J. Krishnamurti
 
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The essential question here is did the Amazons exist at all or were they merely a projection of ancient Greek's (and many modern men's) deep-seated fears of empowered women?
Thus I have spoken.
 
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The essential question here is did the Amazons exist at all or were they merely a projection of ancient Greek's (and many modern men's) deep-seated fears of empowered women?

Huh, whether or not the Amazons existed really doesn't have much to do with the etymology of the name.


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
 
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