You know I was taught about the Hitlers Aryans in High School. However I have never come across a clearcut history of the term Aryan. What I'd like to know is what forms did William Jones, Abraham Hyacinthe Anquetil-Duperron Schlegel, and Max Muller use, exactly.
This is from Indo-European Language and Culture second edition, by Benjamin Fortson:
quote:
The Sanskrit word ā́rya-, the source of the English word, was the self-designation of the Vedic Indic people and has a cognate in Iranian *arya-, where it is also a self-designation. Both the Indic and Iranian terms descend from a form *ā̆rya- that was used by the Indo-Iranian tribes to refer to themselves. (It is also the source of the country-name Iran, from a phrase meaning 'kingdom of the Aryans'.) In the west, various translation of Ved. ā́rya- have been used, most commonly 'nobleman', although we really do not know what its original meaning was. During the nineteenth century, it was proposed that this ā́rya- had been not only the Indo-Iranian tribal self-designation but also the self-designation of the Proto-Indo-Europeans themselves. (This theory has since been abandoned.) "Aryan" then came to be used in scholarship to refer to Indo-European. Some decades later it was further proposed that the PIE homeland had been located in northern Europe (also a theory no longer accepted), leading to speculations that the Proto-Indo-Europeans had been of a Nordic racial type. In this way "Aryan" developed yet another, purely racialist meaning, probably the most familiar one today. In Indo-European studies, "Aryan" (and Arisch in German) and "Indo-Aryan" are still frequently used in their older sense - "Aryan" to refer to Indo-Iranian (less commonly, Indo-European) and "Indo-Aryan" to refer to Indic.
well if I knew who first used the form Aryan in the west it would be really helpful and who firdt started to use the form to refer to the white race. Because the Germans apparently never did.
Originally posted by mojobadshah: well if I knew who first used the form Aryan in the west it would be really helpful and who firdt started to use the form to refer to the white race.
Ah, well, that's not what you originally asked. This message has been edited. Last edited by: goofy,
That doesn't help either. I've read all this crap before including Foretson and I can't tell whethtr when they use the form Aryan they're using the oriinal form or a translation. It's the differnce between Aryan an Ariesh. I'm assuming that it was either the British or the Amercans thay populairzed the form Aryan as a designation for the white race. It looks like H'G. wells may have been the first published user. Am I right? If I am it begs the question why was the form Aryan so important out of all the other forms?
It's the differnce between Aryan an Ariesh. I'm assuming that it was either the British or the Amercans thay populairzed the form Aryan as a designation for the white race.
While I am certainly not an authority on this, I have read a lot about WWII and the associated history. There is no evidence for your assumption.
So you're saying that it was the Germans that came up with the word Aryan? Because above it was mentioned that the German form of the word Aryan was Arisch. So which one was it Aryan or Arisch? Come on people this isn't rocket science.
OK, I see what you're asking. But, you know, you could be nicer about it.
The German adjective is arisch and the noun is Arier. And the English word is Aryan. The citations in the OED for Aryan for the sense "Under the Nazi régime (1933–45) applied to the inhabitants of Germany of non-Jewish extraction" are all from British sources as far as I can tell, including a translation of Mein Kampf in The Times. But this could be a bias on the OED's part. But the word, spelled Arian, was used in the linguistic sense from as early as 1839.This message has been edited. Last edited by: goofy,
Having discussed language on this board since 2002, I have found that there are alterations all over the place. Rocket science is a lot more predictable, at least from my perspective on linguistics...though, admittedly, I am not a linguist.
I found this second entry in the online OED interesting:
quote:
b. spec. Of or pertaining to the ancient Aryan people.The idea current in the 19th cent. of an Aryan race corresponding to a definite Aryan language was taken up by nationalistic historical and romantic writers. It was given especial currency by de Gobineau, who linked it with the theory of the essential inferiority of certain races. The term ‘Aryan race’ was later revived and used for purposes of political propaganda in Nazi Germany
This was from the 1800s (1839-1882) and already had a tinge of racial inferiority.
That's more like it. Thanks. So the form Aryan came to be used to refer to what the Germans under the Nazi regime were calling arisch or Arier by the British.
But what about Arian?This message has been edited. Last edited by: mojobadshah,
Originally posted by mojobadshah: That's more like it. Thanks. So the form Aryan came to be used to refer to what the Germans under the Nazi regime were calling arisch or Arier by the British.
The word already existed, and I guess was extended to this new sense the same way arisch/Arier was in German.
quote:
Originally posted by mojobadshah: What language or languages specifically did the word Arian designate in the linguistic sense? Where did it come from? Was it reconstruction?
Arian and Aryan are the same word. As I already said it was used to refer to what we now call Indo-Iranian, and sometimes to what we now call Indo-European. The earliest citations are the Arian spelling, but Aryan is attested from 1878.
The OED etymology:
quote:
Sanskrit ārya, in the later language ‘noble, of good family,’ but apparently in earlier use a national name ‘comprising the worshippers of the gods of the Brahmans’ (Max Müller); compare Avestan airya ‘venerable,’ also a national name, and Old Persian (Achaemenian) ariya national name (applied to himself by Darius Hystaspes); whence probably Greek Ἀρεία, Ἀρία, Latin Arīa, Aria, and Ariāna, the eastern part of ancient Persia, and Pehlevi and modern Persian Irân ‘Persia.’ As a translation of Latin Ariānus ‘of Aria or Ariana,’ Arian has long been in English use: Aryan is of recent introduction in Comparative Philology, and is also by many written Arian, on the ground that āria was the original word, as shown by the Vedic language, ārya being only the later Sanskrit form; the spelling Aryan has the advantage of distinguishing the word < Arian n.2 and adj.2 in Church Hist.
Arian n.2 and adj.2 is a completely different word: "One born under the zodiacal sign of Aries"This message has been edited. Last edited by: goofy,
According to the Online Etymology Dictionary Arian was used from 1839 to designate the Indo-Europeans as a whole. It doesn't say anything about it used for the Indo-Iranians. It doesn't, however, say where it appears and how it developed. Can anyone help me out here?This message has been edited. Last edited by: mojobadshah,
Aryan was originally the term of choice for Indo-Iranian peoples because they called themselves Arya. Whatever Arya originally meant, it was more of socio-linguistic designation than an ethnic one. Some of them may have had blond hair, but the majority probably didn't. By this definition, then, the descendants of the Aryans can be found in countries such as India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran (Should be pretty obvious since Iran literally means, "Land of the Aryans."), Tajikistan and Bangladesh. (In India, Aryan is opposed to Dravidian.) The word itself means something akin to "well formed", from a root *ar- (which survives in the Greek aristos, "best", and English art, amongst others). As applied to the people themselves and their language, it probably carries the meaning "skillfully assembled, rightly proportioned, obeying the right customs" or similar, with the feeling of "one of us" (its precise opposite, anarya, is frequently used to mean "wrong" or "other"). This, along with its status as the earliest attested Indo-European autonym, is one of the reasons it was adopted by white supremacists to label their racial ideal. It's more than likely that none of them had blond hair (this was considered a marker of specifically "Germanic" rather than Aryan heritage), because their origins were likely as nomads on the Pontic-Caspian steppe, where blond hair is rare.
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
The word itself means something akin to "well formed", from a root *ar- (which survives in the Greek aristos, "best", and English art, amongst others).
I don't think this is generally accepted.
quote:
As applied to the people themselves and their language, it probably carries the meaning "skillfully assembled, rightly proportioned, obeying the right customs" or similar, with the feeling of "one of us" (its precise opposite, anarya, is frequently used to mean "wrong" or "other").
As Fortson says, we don't know what it meant, but the most common translation is "nobleman".
Folks, I am a new member. I am originally from India and have always been curious about the word 'Aryan' because it shows up in a lot of Indian mythology and religious texts. Here is an excerpt from one such text (Commentary on the Bhagavad Gita by Swami Chidbhavananda):
"The term arya in our sacred books does not refer to any race or stock. It only refers to a highly evolved and cultured man. It connotes much more than referring to somebody as a perfect gentleman. An Aryan is one who scrupulously adheres to dharma........The function of the Vedanta philosophy is to induce man to become Aryan in all respects....."
This message has been edited. Last edited by: goofy, 
