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Does this sound right to you?

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https://wordcraft.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/332607094/m/3010068476

November 28, 2014, 19:14
Geoff
Does this sound right to you?
From BBC News: Many people don't know about the enormous progress most countries have made in recent decades - or maybe the media hasn't told them.

Shouldn't it be "...media haven't...?" Am I stuck in Strunk and don't know black from White?
November 28, 2014, 19:40
<Proofreader>
Your reading seems to have a UK slant.
November 28, 2014, 21:54
Kalleh
In searching for an answer online, I found about 50/50 citations for "media have" and "media has" ("media has" wins by about 45,000). There are a number of forums addressing this topic, though no clear answer. I'd say "media are," but then I think either way is acceptable.

It is similar to "data are" versus "data is." I always write "data are," but often see "data is."
November 28, 2014, 22:34
goofy
According to MWDEU, the count noun singular "media" is established in specialized areas. The plural medias is less common than the singular media, and both are less common than the plural media. It is also used as a collective noun that can take either the singular or plural verb. When it takes the singular verb it is preceded by "the" instead of "a, one, this" and always refers to mass media.
November 29, 2014, 05:03
Geoff
I would disambiguate - to my mind, at least - by prefixing the type of medium, as in, "the news media," or "the entertainment media," Hmmmm: news/entertainment? Same thing these days!
November 29, 2014, 20:08
Kalleh
What about "medium?" I've seen that used.
December 21, 2014, 15:00
WeeWilly
quote:
Geoff:
Same thing thee days!


Very droll. You have CNN to a "t".


"The smell of the dust they kicked up was rich and satisfying" - Grahame
January 02, 2015, 20:05
WeeWilly
Your media, plural or singular, is a provocative example. I very much tend to "the media is ...", but would be hard pressed to support it (except by succumbing to the "popular usage" cop-out)!

Do you say "The Olympic Games are the world's greatest sport event" or "The Olympic Games is the world's greatest sport event" or even, maybe, "The Olympic Games are the world's greatest sport events"? Again, I tend to the second usage ... same reasons.

So, I suppose I see "the media" and "The Olympic Games" each as single entities that merely happen to be composed of many parts.

On Saturday mornings, here in Toronto, I often get to watch English premier league soccer. One language quirk that always catches my attention is the British commentators' referring to the team in the plural, as in "Manchester United are not what they were two years ago". For me, the natural usage is very much "Manchester United is ...".


"The smell of the dust they kicked up was rich and satisfying" - Grahame
January 02, 2015, 21:10
Kalleh
Is the Manchester United a team? We'd, for example, say, "The Chicago Bears are the worst team around." (And, by the way, they definitely are.) Of course, Bears is already plural. Maybe that's the difference. United is singular.
January 02, 2015, 22:18
BobHale
I'm certain we've discussed this before. It's really quite simple. For collective nouns like "orchestra", "team", "Government", "police" and so on you just consider whether you are thinking of them as a single homogeneous entity or as many individuals and then choose your verb agreement accordingly.
If you aren't sure then it's a pretty good bet that either will do.


"No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson.
January 03, 2015, 02:46
arnie
Yes, Bob mentions the usual British usage. Americans (and, apparently, Canadians) seem far more concerned about subject-verb agreement. British newspapers all seem to have made the style choice that collective nouns such as the name of a team are always plural. That means that in some cases a sentence reads oddly even to my British eye when they refer to a team as a unit but use a plural verb.


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
January 03, 2015, 21:29
Kalleh
I didn't realize Americans ware more concerned with subject-verb agreement, but I see your point with how exasperated American writers get. Perhaps we're as bad with subject-verb agreement as the British are with apostrophes. Wink
January 04, 2015, 01:41
WeeWilly
I agree with Bob's comment generally. But the material point is whether "media" is reasonably handled as a collective noun. I think it is.

BTW, I don't see "police" in the same way as your other examples, Bob. I would always say "The police are....". Wouldn't you?


"The smell of the dust they kicked up was rich and satisfying" - Grahame
January 04, 2015, 07:03
BobHale
You are right that "police" is a poorly chosen example. In the UK we would, when meaning the singular entity, say "the police force". I could argue and contrive some examples that use "police" with "is" but they would be contrived and not really convincing. You are correct.

Also "media" is a rather different case corresponding perhaps to "dice" which, the extreme pedants would maintain can only be used if you have more than one with "die" being the correct singular. The fact that both "dice" and "media" are often used singularly doesn't stop people complaining that they shouldn't be.


"No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson.
January 04, 2015, 20:36
Kalleh
Maybe my family members are just precriptivists, but when referring to one die, they call it a die. Two - it's dice.
January 04, 2015, 23:15
tinman
Me, too. We've talked about this before.
January 05, 2015, 20:59
Kalleh
Tinman! I was just thinking about you today and wondering where you've been. I hope all is well.