Z mentioned liking haikus on the chat today. It's one verse that I haven't understood, or appreciated, as much as I'd like. For those of you who like them, would you please post some of your favorites for me, and I will review the rules. I know that there are only certain syllables per line, but there are other rules, too.
June 21, 2009, 07:38
zmježd
My favorite haiku and one of the most well-known, is by Bashou Matsue [1644-94].
古池蛙飛び込む水の音 furu ike ya / kawazu tobikomu / mizu no oto
An ancient pond, a frog jumps in, the sound of water.
(The translation I've given is literal and not really a haiku. As translation is difficult enough, and poetry the toughest to translate, I like he literal approach with the original poem. Because, the poems are simple in structure and low on words, I think you can appreciate the sound of the original and gloss it with the English text.)
Here are two other ones by Basho which I like:
京にても京なつかしや時鳥 Kyou ni temo / kyou natsukashi ya / hototogisu
(Literally)
Even in Kyôto— missing Kyôto— the cuckoo.
Even in Kyôto— hearing the cuckoo's cry— I long for Kyôto
Besides the morae (roughly syllable) count, there are two other aspects of a haiku: the use of a 季語 kigo 'season word' (i.e., a word or phrase associated with one of the four seasons) and a 切れ字 kireji 'cutting word' (i.e., a word that is a sort of phonetic punctuation, in the Kyouto haiku above ya is the kireji).
初しぐれ猿も小蓑をほしげ也 hatsu shigure / saru mo komino wo / hoshige nari
The first cold shower, even the monkey seems to want, a little coat of straw.
[Fixed typo.]This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd,
—Ceci n'est pas un seing.
June 21, 2009, 08:24
<Proofreader>
In the bright morning Disturbing God's quietness A throatful of phlegm.
Edited to normal haiku formatThis message has been edited. Last edited by: <Proofreader>,
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
June 21, 2009, 11:10
BobHale
And my favourite is John Cooper Clarke's
To express onesself In seventeen syllables Is very diffic...
"No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson.
June 21, 2009, 21:49
Kalleh
I love z's first one.
Perhaps I am too anal about these, but I always thought they should follow the rules. I don't like them when they don't. Is this site adequate, or too prescriptive?
For example, look at the first one z posted. It obviously is about spring, the words are beautiful and visual, denoting action and sound and even smell if you get into it. Then that last line, "the sound of water," is the contrast that the last line should have.
June 22, 2009, 00:45
Richard English
Of course I will not Comment on this Because it is said to be art.
Richard English
June 22, 2009, 06:01
zmježd
Haiku have a strict metrical form, but they do not rhyme. Sort of like Shakespearean blank verse. Here's an example of the latter:
quote:
Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears; I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him; The evil that men do lives after them, The good is oft interred with their bones, So let it be with Caesar ... The noble Brutus Hath told you Caesar was ambitious: If it were so, it was a grievous fault, And grievously hath Caesar answered it ... Here, under leave of Brutus and the rest, (For Brutus is an honourable man; So are they all; all honourable men) Come I to speak in Caesar's funeral ... He was my friend, faithful and just to me: But Brutus says he was ambitious; And Brutus is an honourable man…. He hath brought many captives home to Rome, Whose ransoms did the general coffers fill: Did this in Caesar seem ambitious? When that the poor have cried, Caesar hath wept: Ambition should be made of sterner stuff: Yet Brutus says he was ambitious; And Brutus is an honourable man. You all did see that on the Lupercal I thrice presented him a kingly crown, Which he did thrice refuse: was this ambition? Yet Brutus says he was ambitious; And, sure, he is an honourable man. I speak not to disprove what Brutus spoke, But here I am to speak what I do know. You all did love him once, not without cause: What cause withholds you then to mourn for him? O judgement! thou art fled to brutish beasts, And men have lost their reason…. Bear with me; My heart is in the coffin there with Caesar, And I must pause till it come back to me. Julius Caesar III.2
As somebody once asked me: "Ain't rhetoric wonderful?"
—Ceci n'est pas un seing.
June 22, 2009, 07:14
goofy
quote:
Originally posted by zmježd: My favorite haiku and one of the most well-known, is by Bashou Matsu [1644-94].
古池蛙飛び込む水の音 furu ike ya / kawazu tobikomu / mizu no oto
An ancient pond, a frog jumps in, the sound of water.
I took a photo of this haiku carved on a stone, in Kiyosumi Gardens in Tokyo. At least that's what I was told; I can't read that calligraphy.
Shouldn't the Japanese be 古池や蛙飛び込む水の音 - the や is an archaic from of は (wa).
June 22, 2009, 20:13
Kalleh
Hmmm, the more I think about it, that beautiful haiku that I love doesn't really stick to the rules, does it? Isn't it 5, 7, 5 syllables? Oh well, I love it anyway.
I've tried to write a few, but so far they've fizzled, I fear.
June 22, 2009, 20:59
zmježd
does it?
Yes, the Japanese original does. I provided a literal, not a poetical, translation.
—Ceci n'est pas un seing.
June 23, 2009, 21:12
Kalleh
Oh...that's right.
I have been toying with them a bit and liking them more and more.
June 27, 2009, 08:50
<Proofreader>
Cold winter sunlight Illuminates ice-glazed fields. My toes turning black.
June 28, 2009, 14:27
Kalleh
That's pretty good...though from reading about them I don't think you're supposed to make them personal. Still, that last line is a shocker, which it's supposed to be.
July 30, 2009, 16:28
Cat
Haiku are so hard. What shall I put in this line? Too late - missed it now
(c) me, 2008
Sorry, Kalleh, I know it's not traditional, but for some reason, I find the haiku format lends itself really well to humour in English. Have you ever read the book of cat haiku? I found it a few years back and it still makes me literally lol now .
Oh, and *waves*. How you doing?
July 30, 2009, 16:37
<Proofreader>
quote:
I don't think you're supposed to make them personal
Am I one bound by unthinking tradition? Correct? No, not I.
July 31, 2009, 20:43
Kalleh
Cat, it is so great to see you back! Pull up a chair and stay awhile.
I do like traditional haiku (is there no plural?). However, in the same way as I appreciate prose poetry or definitional limericks (sometimes), I like other types of haiku. I like yours a lot...it's just what I think when I write them: there just isn't enough room for me to say what I want!
August 01, 2009, 11:17
Cat
Thanks
I'll try and pop by more often - not that I need any more reasons to stay on the Internet when I should be doing other things!
August 01, 2009, 21:11
Kalleh
I looked it up and apparently the plural can be haiku, but also haikus.
August 01, 2009, 21:27
zmježd
The plural of haiku in Japanese is haiku; they don't usually mark the plural. The plural in English I would say is haikus.
—Ceci n'est pas un seing.
August 02, 2009, 20:35
Kalleh
I looked it up on dictionary.com , and both the Random House and AHD seemed to say Haiku could be plural, though I wasn't 100% sure of the Random House's comment: "–noun, plural -ku for 2."
August 03, 2009, 05:37
<Proofreader>
I think the plurl is "I wrote a haiku, then another one."
August 04, 2009, 07:58
Cat
Yeah, best thing to do is avoid it where possible!
When I originally wrote it, I wrote 'haikus'. Then someone said something which made me think it might be wrong, so I changed it for here. I suspect either is OK.
.