October 10, 2007, 20:02
neveuEvolution of language
Interesting article on the
future evolution of English.October 10, 2007, 20:16
<Asa Lovejoy>So, essentially they're saying WRT irregular verb past tenses, "Use it or lose it?"
October 10, 2007, 21:04
KallehIt's interesting to see a mathematical model applied to language.
October 11, 2007, 07:32
goofyquote:
words -- specifically, irregular verbs that do not take an "-ed" ending in the past tense -- are subject to powerful pressure to "regularize" as the language develops.
I don't think this is anything we didn't already know. But it's interesting to see it quantified like this. Radioactive verbs!
October 11, 2007, 07:44
zmježdOne thing I'd like to add is that today's irregular verbs were oftentimes yesterday's regular ones. Germanic strong verbs, e.g., English
sing,
sang,
sung, didn't start out as irregular, but seem that way after the phonological process by which they became differentiated became less productive. There are even some cases of regular verbs being reanalyzed as irregular, e.g.,
dive, dived[/i] ~
dove.
It's interesting how the urge to regularize is often chastened. Suppletive forms like
good,
better ~ *
gooder, or
go,
went ~ *
goed. But not
lesser;
less was the original comparative form of
little.
October 11, 2007, 10:01
goofyquote:
Originally posted by zmježd:
One thing I'd like to add is that today's irregular verbs were oftentimes yesterday's regular ones. Germanic strong verbs, e.g., English sing, sang, sung, didn't start out as irregular, but seem that way after the phonological process by which they became differentiated became less productive.
I didn't know this! The regular
ablaut differences in PIE were continued into Proto-Germanic, where they became the main markers of grammatical distinctions. I could be wrong, but I gather that the PIE forms
*sengʷh-,
*songʷh- and
*sn̥gʷh- (e-grade, o-grade, and zero-grade respectively), which formed a regular paradigm, became English
sing,
sang,
sung. Other sound changes have obscured the regularity, and also ablaut ceased to be productive in Proto-Germanic. Another example is
eat, ate, eaten.
October 11, 2007, 11:14
arnieI understand that the verb "to shit" is perfectly regular (if you'll excuse the phrase) but many people nowadays use "shat" instead of "shitted"; it somehow seems more
right.
October 11, 2007, 13:09
<Asa Lovejoy>"Shat," which rhymes with the French word for "cat." Any connection? As you know, when the cat's away, the house smells better!
October 11, 2007, 17:50
Seanahanquote:
So, essentially they're saying WRT irregular verb past tenses, "Use it or lose it?"
This is mostly true of verbs today. Do you know what the word "wrought" comes from? Stephen Pinker talked about this in depth in "Words and Rules".
October 12, 2007, 01:15
Myth JelliesDidn't wrought and wright come from the same root meaning work?
October 12, 2007, 05:26
zmježd Do you know what the word "wrought" comes from?Wrought is from the past participle of
work :- Old English
wyrcan ~
gewroht, related to Greek εργον (
ergon). Example usage being:
What had God wrought?