Surrey has proven to be an unusual one.<BR>The problem is that some words that rhyme with Surrey for the US (blurry, furry) definitely don’t rhyme in the UK. <BR><BR>So for the purposes of voting, keep in mind that what you may think isn’t rhyme might be a rhyme for the US.<BR><BR>Also, one of the submissions was a three part limerick that it was specifically requested be treated as ONE entry.<BR><BR>Here then are the various verses,<BR><BR>1<BR>A gourmet Thai diner in Surrey<BR>Did sweat 'til his glasses were blurry<BR>Still he never stopped<BR>Until he just popped<BR>And died of Red Five-Alarm Curry<BR><BR>2.<BR>For the basketball season in Surrey,<BR>Our fantasy league’s in a flurry<BR>Of discussion of names:<BR>“Should I pick Lebron James?<BR>At the moment I’m favoring Curry."<BR><BR>3,<BR>We once had a poster from Surrey<BR>Who loved English ale - til blurry.<BR>He hated our Bud;<BR>"It tastes just like mud!"<BR>Americans caused him much worry!<BR><BR>4.<BR>A man from the county of Surrey<BR>Was always in such a big hurry<BR>Till he met Betty Jo<BR>Who told him to go slow<BR>As she showed him something quite furry<BR><BR>5.<BR>That warm summer night in Surrey<BR>He remembers with no hurry<BR>At Newlands Corner<BR>With sweet Rose Horner<BR>Lips meeting in a fast flurry!<BR><BR>6.<BR>(This is the three parter – treat as a single entry for voting.)<BR>At an Indian diner in Surrey<BR>I ordered the least spicy curry.<BR>It seemed fine at first,<BR>But the sweat beads soon burst,<BR>And before long I'd chucked on their dhurrie.<BR>...<BR>I then went outside for a durry,<BR>Where a Cop on the beat there in Surrey<BR>Asked, "Are you smoking pot?"<BR>I said, "No, Sir, I'm not,<BR>But they may have put some in their curry."<BR>...<BR>Though I was still in quite a flurry,<BR>I went back in that diner in Surrey,<BR>No, not for more food<BR>That I'd already spewed,<BR>But the chef was as hot as her curry.<BR><BR><BR>7.<BR>There’s the strangest pub in Surrey<BR>That serves only rice and curry.<BR>They don’t make fish pie;<BR>And, won’t tell you why, ---<BR>At times, the curry is furry.Make your selection1234567

BTW Sattva, Us Aussies for the most part rhyme and spell according to English English, despite our vastly different accents. At least we did traditionally, but who knows what the kids of today are doing and saying, after all they can't spell, have no idea of grammar, and you can't really blame them, because they are taught by teachers who didn't think that spelling and grammar mattered, they just focused on creativity

So we (well my generation at least) CURRY favour, not favor, and in so doing I will vote for my favourite. I am sorry but I will find it very difficult to treat furry as a rhyme for Surrey, and this may affect my voting. It is the adjective from fur (as in animal hair) and it rhymes with her and is a homonym for fir, and so to me it is pronounced ferr-ee.

Here's the thing that really does my head in when it comes to pronunciation and accents. With very few exceptions, all English speakers regardless how different their accents, all sound like they have identical accents and pronunciation when the sing. If you only heard them sing (in English) and never heard them speak how could you possibly pick what accents the following have/had:

The Beatles and the Stones (English), U2 and Boyzone (Irish), Abba (Swedish), AC/DC, Little River Band and Air Supply (Aussies), Deep Purple and The Doors (US), Celine Dion and Justin Bieber (Canadian), Ricky Martin (Puerto Rican), Bob Marley (Jamaican), Jennifer Lopez, Carlos Santana and Placido Domingo (Spanish), Lorde and Dame Kiri Te Kanawa (New Zealanders), Bjork (Icelandic), Annie Lennox and Sheena Easton (Scottish) and I could go on.

Why is it so??

At the risk of creating a schism
(Which I know wouldn't be cataclysm)
Though the others are fair
TWO's the only one there
That holds true to the Limerick rhythm

(Yes, yes, blame it on a speech impediment if you must)

quote:

Originally posted by Greg S:
BTW Sattva, Us Aussies for the most part rhyme and spell according to English English, despite our vastly different accents. At least we did traditionally, but who knows what the kids of today are doing and saying, after all they can't spell, have no idea of grammar, and you can't really blame them, because they are taught by teachers who didn't think that spelling and grammar mattered, they just focused on creativity

So we (well my generation at least) CURRY favour, not favor, and in so doing I will vote for my favourite. I am sorry but I will find it very difficult to treat furry as a rhyme for Surrey, and this may affect my voting. It is the adjective from fur (as in animal hair) and it rhymes with her and is a homonym for fir, and so to me it is pronounced ferr-ee.

For me both fur and fir are pronounced the same and definitely not like ferr-ee LOL.

quote:

TWO's the only one there
That holds true to the Limerick rhythm

That's good because that's the one I just voted for, and yes it actually rhymed for me too.

However the author must be talking about a Surrey not in the UK, because the locals in Surrey in the UK probably wouldn't know an NBA Basketball Player from a World Series Baseball player, or an NBL Footballer.

With all these discussions, we need more than 3 votes here. Pretty please?

It was very much between 1 or 2 for me, though, I landed on #1.

So can anybody tell me, why singing in English, takes away almost all pronunciation and accent differences?? It as puzzled me for 40 years.

I read that post and disagreed. The Beatles, I think, were partly popular in the U.S. because of their accents. Surely their accents are quite noticeable.

We have four votes for two limericks, come on people - more votes please.

Five now - more needed.

I was the first one to cast a vote. So, you can't blame anything but two bad limericks on me!

I voted for yours, Kalleh, just because...

quote:

Originally posted by Greg S:
I am sorry but I will find it very difficult to treat furry as a rhyme for Surrey, and this may affect my voting. It is the adjective from fur (as in animal hair) and it rhymes with her and is a homonym for fir, and so to me it is pronounced ferr-ee.

Surrey scurry flurry blurry

Very interesting Shufitz. I have no problem with Surrey, scurry and flurry being rhymes. As Bob has pointed out for him and me its furry and blurry we have issues with. I listened very intently to the way the singer pronounced blurry and it is almost exactly the same as I pronounce it?? That really did my head in, until I realised he pronounces all the other -urry words the same as that.

So the the US pronunciation of Surrey, scurry, flurry, curry, worry hurry etc is more less as -er-ee (whihc is how I say blurry and furry) whereas to Bob and I all those words are -uhr-ee.

Thanks for your insight.

And you can tell Kalleh, the Beatles and the Stones only sound like they have English accents when they talk, not when they sing.

It's clearer to me now. It isn't that you pronounce blurry and furry differently to me... it's that you pronounce everything else differently to me.

My \ˈhʌrɪ ˈkʌrɪ ˈsʌrɪ\ becomes your \ˈhər-ē ˈkər-ē ˈsər-ē\

If there is no more voting in the next 24 hours I shall use my tie-break.

Tie break time, then.

I really rather like the three verse number six and might ordinarily have given my vote to that but as it wouldn't resolve the tie I will have to go with number 2. To my ear it is the only one that has both perfect rhyme and metre. I don't know who Curry is or why they would be playing fantasy basketball in Surrey but the rhyme and metre win it for me.

Of course as it is from shufitz I would expect no less.

Number two it is then.

So were you planning to tell us who wrote the others. I am not just saying this because No. 6 was mine, because I have said it before when it wasn't mine ... BUT I do not understand, considering that there are so few votes cast, why the setter of the game can't vote normally like everyone else for the one they like best. Then if there's a tie, they can still use their casting vote to determine the winner, simply by declaring who the winner is, regardless of which one they actually voted for. The fact that they can't actually vote again is irrelevant.

Not posting the other names was an easily rectified oversight.

1. bethree5
2 shufitz
3 Kalleh
4 tinman
5 sattva
6 Greg S
7 sattva

As for the suggestion about voting it would effectively give two votes the the person who set the place name. If you do that then why not two votes to everybody? Normally the setter doesn't vote at all and only uses his or her vote to break a tie.

quote:

And you can tell Kalleh, the Beatles and the Stones only sound like they have English accents when they talk, not when they sing.

Not to my ear, good sir.

Shu is thinking about the next place, and I will post it for him.

quote:

Not to my ear, good sir.

Fair enough. The Aussie accent is affected by so many influences, and we are so exposed to the British accents historically from our roots, and to yours via Hollywood, that maybe we are deaf to the tonal differences when they sing in English, whereas you are not.

With Steph Curry and LeBron James references in No. 2, I was sure I was voting for your limerick when I voted for it.

That is so funny, Greg, because I thought it was yours! I had not known that Shu entered one.

quote:

it would effectively give two votes to the person who set the place name

And what's wrong with that, it could be considered part of "the prize" for winning the previous game.

Sorry not to vote, folks! And delighted I got 2 votes. I loved the 3-verser by Greg, would have voted for it, not changing result.

At the risk of sounding like an ignoramus, why is mine (#1) not also considered true Limerick metre?

This ignoranus thinks yours is just fine! But then mine was so bad I had to withdraw it, so consider the souse.

I thought it was so fine that I voted for it

quote:

Originally posted by bethree5:
why is #1 not also considered true Limerick metre?

It's a matter of stressed or un-stressed syllables. I would postulate that true limerick rhythm is approximately

da-DA-da-da-DA-da-da-DA
da-da-DA-da-da-DA-da-da-DA
da-da-DA-da-da-DA
da-da-DA-da-da-DA
da-da-DA-da-da-DA-da-da-DA


This is #1:
A gourmet Thai diner in Surrey
Did sweat 'til his glasses were blurry
Still he never stopped
Until he just popped
And died of Red Five-Alarm Curry

which if in limerick rhythm should be stressed

A GOURmet Thai DIner in SURrey
Did SWEAT 'til his GLASSes were BLURry
Still HE never STOPped
UnTIL he just POPped
And DIED of Red FIVE-Alarm CURRy.

But I hear "gourmet Thai diner" as gour-MET THAI DIner
and "Still he never stopped" as STILL he NEVer STOPped
which my ear finds jarring. Thus, not "true Limerick Metre."

To be sure, you can pronounce the words however you want, and make them fit, but if you force the poem into the limerick dactyl form, sometimes the accent goes on the wrong sylLABle and the lines somehow don't flow naturally.

From Wikipedia on Limericks:

The standard form of a limerick is a stanza of five lines, with the first, second and fifth rhyming with one another and having three feet of three syllables each; and the shorter third and fourth lines also rhyming with each other, but having only two feet of three syllables. The defining "foot" of a limerick's meter is usually the anapaest, (ta-ta-TUM), but catalexis (missing a weak syllable at the beginning of a line) and extra-syllable rhyme (which adds an extra unstressed syllable) can make limericks appear amphibrachic (ta-TUM-ta).

I have no idea where you got information that the first line begins "da-DA... but that is wrong. It should be "da-da-DA" throughout, with slight variations like your example.

quote:

I have no idea where you got information that the first line begins "da-DA... but that is wrong. It should be "da-da-DA" throughout, with slight variations like your example.

I do think it is acceptable to vary the unstressed syllables at the beginning of limerick lines, Proof. I don't see one or two of those as being right or wrong. Now, three, yes. Or three unstressed syllables in the middle of the limerick is wrong as well. Here is one of my well-known favorites:

Nymphomaniacal Jill
Used a dynamite stick for a thrill
They found her vagina
In North Carolina
And bits of her tits in Brazil

After reading this thread and the other related one:
Me!


They're Coming to Take me Away (Ha Ha!)

quote:

Originally posted by bethree5:
Sorry not to vote, folks! And delighted I got 2 votes. I loved the 3-verser by Greg, would have voted for it, not changing result.

At the risk of sounding like an ignoramus, why is mine (#1) not also considered true Limerick metre?

It's not the metre. To a Brit "blurry" doesn't rhyme. But I think we've done the does/doesn't rhyme thing to death now.

quote:

I do think it is acceptable to vary the unstressed syllables at the beginning of limerick lines, Proof.

.I agree. However, as noted in the article, , the classic limerick format and the STANDARD form begins "da-da-DA'. Any other is a variant

Looking at Shu's winning limerick, first of all, do I have the stresses right?

For the BAS-ket ball SEA-son in SURR-ey
Our FAN-tasy LEAGUE’S in a FLURR-y
Of dis-CUS-sion of NAMES
Should i PICK Lebron JAMES?
At the MO-ment I’m FAV-oring CURR-y.

When I first read about limericks it said you should use an 8-8-5-5-8 syllable form. This isn't that. So, I am realizing that it isn't the number of syllables that is the most important thing. Can anyone give me an example using a da-da-DA type of example, how it should look with the 8-8-5-5-8 form or a 9-9-6-6-9 form? Shu's syllables are 10-9-6-6-10. I am finding this confusing.

Hi Sattva,

I will have a crack at it. You do have the stresses right and it is the stresses that are the most important thing, not the number of syllables.

For lines 3 & 4 provided the stressed syllables are the last and 4th last you can get away with 5 or 6 syllables, including all of 5-5, 5-6, 6-5 & 6-6 and it will be easily scanned by the reader and fit the required rhythm for limericks.

For lines 1, 2 & 5 there are generally 2 alternatives depending on whether the last or second last is the stressed syllable.

For the Leeds game the last syllable is stressed, so the lines should either be:

la-di-DAH, la-di-DAH, la-di-DAH or
di-DAH, la-di-DAH, la-di-DAH

In the Surrey game, the 2nd last syllable is stressed, so the lines should either be:

la-di-DAH, la-di-DAH, la-di-DAH-da or
di-DAH, la-di-DAH, la-di-DAH-da

Just like with lines 3 & 4, provided the stresses are in the right places you can mix the 2 up a bit, and the limerick will still be easily scanned by the reader and won't lose the limerick beat ... as Shu has done.

For the record I thought all 3 verses of my 3-part limerick No. 6 also conformed to the generalised rules described above.

quote:

Originally posted by Greg S:
I thought all 3 verses of my 3-part limerick No. 6 also conformed to the generalised rules described above.

Respectfully - regretfully - I demur.

At an Indian diner in Surrey
I ordered the least spicy curry.
It seemed fine at first,
But the sweat beads soon burst,
And before long I'd chucked on their dhurrie.
...
I then went outside for a durry,
Where a Cop on the beat there in Surrey
Asked, "Are you smoking pot?"
I said, "No, Sir, I'm not,
But they may have put some in their curry."
...
Though I was still in quite a flurry,
I went back in that diner in Surrey,
No, not for more food
That I'd already spewed,
But the chef was as hot as her curry.

If you recite the words out loud, I offer, the natural stresses are
"...they MAY have PUT some in their CURry" and
"though i was STILL in QUITE a FLURry," for example.
You recognized the issue, and fixed it, in writing "I then"
instead of "Then I" to begin the second verse.

By no means is it automatic. It's very easy
to impose the rhythm we want on the words,
even where it doesn't really quite belong.

Hmm - by jingo (Aussie slang) Hab, sadly I do believe you are correct.

Would the following have been better:

But there MAY have been SOME in their CURry

and

Al-THOUGH i was STILL in a FLURry?

quote:

it would effectively give two votes to the person who set the place name

Furthermore, the way most of you have been doing it (I have usually issued a normal vote when I have set the game), it means the setter of the game doesn't actually get a vote at all, unless there is a tie that needs to be split. My (former) wife spent a year as the Mayor of a City. There was an even number of Councillors (12 in fact). On any issue she got to vote. If it was a 6-all tie, then she would make a casting Vote making her side win. But if she wasn't allowed to vote unless there was a tie (which there couldn't have been because there would then have been an odd number of votes), all of those issues where she used her casting vote to determine which way to go, would have been lost.

Therefore the game setter should have a normal Vote just like everybody else.

And Sattva,

There's a further complication when the town ends with two unstressed syllables. I can't think of such a town off the top of my head, but this may serve as a demonstrative example:

there ONCE was a BOY on a BIcyle,
who KNOCKED down a GIRL on a TRIcyle,
when HE blew his STACK
she GAVE him straight BACK
a STARE that was COLD as an ICicle.

Furthermore Sattva,

For the rhyming it is the last stressed syllable that must rhyme (and not be a homophone) and any following unstressed syllables must sound exactly the same (as in they must be homophones).

quote:

Originally posted by Greg S:
Furthermore Sattva,

For the rhyming it is the last stressed syllable that must rhyme (and not be a homophone) and any following unstressed syllables must sound exactly the same (as in they must be homophones).

Examples for both?

Oh wait, let me see if I understand from what you shared previously.

"But there MAY have been SOME in their CURry

and

Al-THOUGH i was STILL in a FLURry?"

Curry and Flurry in the above would be an example of what you mean, right?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sattva,

quote:

Originally posted by haberdasher:
But I hear "gourmet Thai diner" as gour-MET THAI DIner
and "Still he never stopped" as STILL he NEVer STOPped
which my ear finds jarring. Thus, not "true Limerick Metre."

Ah right you are, Hab! I said GOUR-met in my head so many times I convinced myself it was OK, & it's not. And 'Still HE never worried' can't work unless I'm contrasting him w/ some worriers on hand.
Good catch.

And another thing!
Commenting further on the pronunciation issue, i.e., curry-hurry-scurry etc vs blurry & furry, in UK vs US.

Just didn't want to let folks walk away w/ the idea all Americans have that broad, flat North-Atlantic dialect where all those words rhyme with "furry". And, to boot: Mary, marry, and merry all contain a tacky vowel that's sort of like the vowel in "smeary". And cemetery directions sound like a commentary post-fruit-bashing ("He was berried over there.")

These issues were thoroughly [that's thuh-roughly] discussed, cocktail-hours, at my clan's once-annual August gatherings at Cape Cod. The forebears were a 1904 marriage of a Nova Scotian & a S Carolingian, both of whose regions still carried features of 'Received Pronunciation' back then. The LI & Chicago grandkids had to be repeatedly admonished that our family name was Durham, not Der-am!