There was a great mixed metaphor used on the UK TV show The Apprentice just now:
"He's so far up Jim's ... behind ... that he can't see the wood for the trees".
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
June 01, 2011, 14:15
BobHale
You just broke the world speed record for posting comments about The Apprentice. She said that less than half an hour ago!
"No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson.
June 01, 2011, 20:18
Kalleh
The wood from the trees? Funny!
June 02, 2011, 01:30
BobHale
"Can't see the wood for the trees" is a common enough saying here though not in quite that context.
"No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson.
June 02, 2011, 02:09
Guy Barry
I'm never quite sure of the origin of that phrase. Does it mean "can't see the wood (small area of land covered with trees) for the trees (that make it up)"? Or "can't see the wood (fibrous material forming the trunk and branches of a tree) for the trees (made out of it)"? Or is it deliberately ambiguous between the two?
June 02, 2011, 03:17
arnie
I've always taken it to mean that the person can't see the larger picture because of concentrating on the detail; the wood being the larger picture, and the trees being the detail.
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
June 02, 2011, 06:05
<Proofreader>
I've always heard it as "Can't see the forest for the trees."
June 02, 2011, 21:03
Kalleh
That whole British/American thing is always so confusing. I thought the whole post was about how the speaker messed up on the metaphor of not seeing the forest for the trees.
June 03, 2011, 01:46
BobHale
It was about, because when I heard it I thought the same thing, the mixed metaphor of not being able to see the wood for the trees while being "up Jim's behind".
"No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson.
June 14, 2011, 13:29
Alphabet Soup
Don't Americans use the word 'wood' to mean 'forest'?
I had no idea that that use was especially British.
June 14, 2011, 17:29
<Proofreader>
quote:
Don't Americans use the word 'wood' to mean 'forest'?
Poetically
June 15, 2011, 00:37
Guy Barry
I don't regard "wood" and "forest" as synonyms. To me a wood is a lot smaller than a forest, although I'm not sure what the dividing-line is.
Also it occurs to me that the word "wood" is often used in the plural even when only one such area is referred to, e.g. "a walk in the woods". Anyone know why?
June 15, 2011, 07:45
<Proofreader>
If you walk through the forest, you're in the woods; if you walk through the lumberyard, you're surrounded by wood. And Congressman Weiner is fascinated by his wood.
June 15, 2011, 17:28
Alphabet Soup
quote:
I don't regard "wood" and "forest" as synonyms. To me a wood is a lot smaller than a forest
Yes, I think so too. In my question above I should have said 'small forest' really, or 'wooded area' to be more exact.
June 15, 2011, 17:29
Alphabet Soup
quote:
Originally posted by Proofreader: If you walk through the forest, you're in the woods; if you walk through the lumberyard, you're surrounded by wood. And Congressman Weiner is fascinated by his wood.
If you go down to the wood today, you're sure of a big surprise...
June 15, 2011, 18:43
<Proofreader>
quote:
If you go down to the wood today, you're sure of a big surprise...
If you go down on the wood today...
June 15, 2011, 20:40
Alphabet Soup
I stand corrected. (ahem)
*sings*
♫ Today's the day the texter bares all in his twitpic. ♫This message has been edited. Last edited by: Alphabet Soup,
June 15, 2011, 21:50
Kalleh
In the U.S. we say that we'll walk through the "woods," not the "wood." Do you, in England, walk through the "wood?"
June 16, 2011, 00:56
BobHale
We use either.
"No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson.
June 16, 2011, 01:07
Guy Barry
quote:
Originally posted by Alphabet Soup: I stand corrected. (ahem)
I presume that Proofreader was joking in his post (punning on the obscene meaning of "wood"), but it left me wondering what the actual words to "Teddy Bears' Picnic" are. A Google search revealed no fewer than three different versions:
"if you go down to the woods today..." "if you go down in the woods today..." "if you go out in the woods today..."
The one I'm most familiar with is the second one, made famous in the 1932 recording by Henry Hall and his Orchestra. Does anyone know which is the original?
Regarding Kalleh's point about "walk in the wood" versus "walk in the woods", I think there's a slight difference of nuance. There's a small wooded area near here known as "Twerton Wood", and I might say "I'm going for a walk in the wood", referring to that specific area of woodland. "A walk in the woods" strikes me as more generic, referring to any wooded area.
Do Americans not generally use the term "wood" (singular) to mean "a small area of woodland", then? What term do they use?
June 16, 2011, 02:09
BobHale
Way back in October 2008 I posted about the sinister and evil lyrics to Teddy Bears' Picnic on my blog.
You don't need to go there to look. I'll repost it below.
quote:
Until today I had no idea that the children's song "Teddy Bears Picnic" had more than one verse. Now that I do, courtesy of a children's TV program, I'm really rather disturbed by the thought. The first verse is innocuous enough.
If you go down to the woods today You're sure of a big surprise. If you go down to the woods today You'd better go in disguise.
I'm not sure of the need for a disguise but it's probably just because teddy bears are shy and retiring creatures who might run away and hide if they recognise you. Or is it? The second verse continues.
If you go down to the woods today You'd better not go alone. It's lovely out in the woods today But safer to stay at home.
That's vaguely alarming, now. Why is it safer to stay at home? Do those teddy bears get a little too boisterous when they've been at the lemonade. Are there gangs of teddy bears in hiding waiting to waylay any non-ursine intruder? The third and final verse reveals the gory, Friday-The-Thirteenth, truth.
Every teddy bear that's been good Is sure of a treat today. There's lots of wonderful things to eat And wonderful games to play.
It couldn't be any clearer. These teddy bears have an appetite and the reason it's safer to stay at home is because you are on the menu. Nasty little buggers teddy bears. Never did trust them.
"No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson.
June 16, 2011, 08:25
<Proofreader>
I didn't know there was an actual "down in" version. I've always heard it as "go out in the..."
I don't have the original sign but supposedly the Forest Service put one up that warned hikers to be careful while in the woods To prevent bear attacks, hikers should wear little bells around their neck to scare off bears. If you were not certain bears were in the area, look for bear scat, which you could identify by noticing the little bells in the excrement.
(corrected sigh for signThis message has been edited. Last edited by: <Proofreader>,
Originally posted by Kalleh: In the U.S. we say that we'll walk through the "woods," not the "wood." Do you, in England, walk through the "wood?"
We don't just walk, occasionally we whiffle. (If the wood is sufficiently tulgey, that is.)
June 16, 2011, 11:54
<Proofreader>
At slow points in the job I would do that but the boss told me not to "whittle while you work."
June 16, 2011, 13:24
Alphabet Soup
You ain't just whifflin' Dixie
June 16, 2011, 18:10
Geoff
It's really not surprising that Teddy Bears' Picnic is macabre. Most fairy tales are too, and the tune is usually played in a "macabre minor" key.
As for Congressman Weiner's faux pas, it's not true - it's a phallusy.
As for a "wood" being smaller than a forest, what make you of Macbeth? "Macbeth shall never vanquished be until Great Birnam wood to high Dunsinane hill Shall come against him."
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. -J. Krishnamurti
June 16, 2011, 18:29
<Proofreader>
"Ring around the rosy" was about the Black Death.
June 16, 2011, 18:40
Alphabet Soup
quote:
As for a "wood" being smaller than a forest, what make you of Macbeth?
I don't know the answer to this, but how's this for a guess?
quote:
The Royal Forest, which includes Birnam Hill, was gifted in 1160 by Malcolm, the Maiden, to Duncan, Earl of Fife, on his marriage with Princess Ada, the King's niece. This Duncan was a descendant of that MacDuff who accompanied Malcolm Canmohr on his march to oust the victorious usurper, Macbeth.
So Great Birnam Wood was part of the Royal Forest.
And...
quote:
A royal forest is an area of land with different meanings in England, Wales and Scotland; the term forest does not mean here forest as it is understood today, as an area of densely wooded land...Royal forests usually included large areas of heath, grassland and wetland — anywhere that supported deer and other game.
Interesting because I always thought it was about the plague.
June 17, 2011, 07:12
<Proofreader>
That's the last time I try to learn something.
June 17, 2011, 07:18
Alphabet Soup
Well, my research into the subject is far from thorough. I've only read the article on Wikipedia (I haven't even checked the citations,) so I wouldn't like to vouch for the accuracy of the claim. But, in my opinion, the Wikipedians make quite a compelling argument.
Apparently the rhyme doesn't appear in print before 1881 and it isn't until after WWII that claims start to arise connecting it to the plague. In its earliest known incarnations, the poem doesn't contain the elements which supposedly connect it to the plague and apparently, those which do aren't actually close descriptions of the symptoms.
It seems that the plague interpretation is a twentieth century projection pushed onto this poem despite both the lack of historical evidence to support it and the fact that the evidence which is available suggests a different origin.
June 17, 2011, 13:06
arnie
It's not much of an authority, but QI debunked the plague story in one episode for the same reasons. Probably the QI elves had read Wikipedia.
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
June 17, 2011, 13:58
Alphabet Soup
quote:
Originally posted by arnie: It's not much of an authority, but QI debunked the plague story in one episode for the same reasons. Probably the QI elves had read Wikipedia.
