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betwixt and between
March 31, 2008, 08:36
zmježdbetwixt and between
One of my favorite prescriptivoid rulelets is that
between can only be used with two conjoined noun phrases: e.g.,
between you and me. If more than two, then go for
among. This leads to absurdities like: *
the treaty among France, Italy, and the UK was signed last week rather than the more natural sounding
the treaty between France, Italy, and the UK was signed last week (
link).
—Ceci n'est pas un seing.
March 31, 2008, 08:55
arnieA similar example of an "exception" to this "rule" would be
The Bermuda Triangle is situated between three islands in the Caribbean.
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
March 31, 2008, 09:51
Richard Englishquote:
The Bermuda Triangle is situated between three islands in the Caribbean.
Nowhere near Bermuda, then...
Richard English
March 31, 2008, 09:55
zmježdquote:
[Between] is still the only word available to express the relation of a thing to many surrounding things severally and individually, among expressing a relation to them collectively and vaguely." J A H Murray, editor of the OED.
—Ceci n'est pas un seing.
March 31, 2008, 10:42
arniequote:
Nowhere near Bermuda, then...
I didn't really know. I made that sentence up as an example. On looking it up in
Wikipedia I see:
quote:
The boundaries of the Triangle vary with the author; some stating its shape is akin to a trapezoid covering the Straits of Florida, the Bahamas, and the entire Caribbean island area east to the Azores; others add to it the Gulf of Mexico. The more familiar, triangular boundary in most written works has as its points somewhere on the Atlantic coast of Florida; San Juan, Puerto Rico; and the mid-Atlantic island of Bermuda, with most of the accidents concentrated along the southern boundary around the Bahamas and the Florida Straits.
So it does appear to be near Bermuda ...
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
March 31, 2008, 11:24
Richard EnglishNot really. Bermuda is well north of the Caribbean; it's almost due east of Savannah (GA) and almost due south of Halifax Nova Scotia.
Having said which, it's a very common mistake that people make - the assumption that Bermuda is a Caribbean island, not an Atlantic one.
Richard English
March 31, 2008, 18:37
arniequote:
... has as its points somewhere on the Atlantic coast of Florida; San Juan, Puerto Rico; and the mid-Atlantic island of Bermuda ...
(My italics.)
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
March 31, 2008, 23:18
Richard EnglishOne problem is with the mythical triangle itself - the supposed location of which varies according to the source of information.
That one of its point touches Bermuda I don't dispute and by that definition it is near Bermuda. But if the triangle itself is bounded by three Caribbean islands (as your definition suggested), then it can't be anywhere near Bermuda, since Bermuda is hundreds of miles from the Caribbean.
Of course, that doesn't invalidate the grammatical point in any way.
Richard English
April 01, 2008, 00:42
jerry thomasFrance, Italy, and the UK, the treaty's three primary participants, signed it last week.
April 01, 2008, 05:38
zmježdYes, one can (almost) always rewrite the sentence to keep the usage mavens from snapping at one's heels, but the grammatical truth of the matter is that there's nothing wrong with the sentence as I wrote it. The earliest example of
between being used with more than two items is 971 CE in the Blickling Homilies. The stipulation that it cannot be used with more than two (based on the etymological fallacy) is from the 19th century.
—Ceci n'est pas un seing.