One of the great things about beer festivals is the great range of weird names.
Over the past three days I've consumed

Archers Golden
Arran Blondie
Aviemore Sheepshaggers Gold
Belhaven St Andrews Ale
Blackawton Dragonheart
Broadstone Gold
Bysons Patrick Porter
Cottage Norman Conquest
Enville Old Porter
Guffs Guinevere
Hawkshead Premium
Highgate Englands Glory
Hogshead Hopgarden Gold
Hopback Summer Lightning
Itchin Valley Pure Gold
Jarrow Red Ellen
Jenning Snecklifter
Kelham Island Pale Rider
Kelham Island Easy Rider
Moorhouses Pride of Pendle
Nethergate Umbel Magna
Oakham Bishops Farewell
Quay Weymouth Bitter
RCH Steam Flames
RCH Firebox
Ringwood Old Thumper
Robinsons Northern Glory
Woodfordes Morfolk Nog


Note - the names and breweries are presented exactly as on the program which as far as I can tell contains no apostrophes whatsoever.
I'll leave correct placement of all apostrophes as an exercise for the student.

Now it's time to say "au revoir" as I have to get back to exam marking.

Au revoir, mes amis.


PS I was rather disappointed to find that the Garton Stunned Mullet Bitter wasn't on - who could resist such a name ?

To quote an eminent authority (myself),

What! Ye hae not lived 'til ye hae savored Olde Frothingslosh, the stale pale ale so light that the foam was on the bottom!

I wish I knew what some of them meant. I put "snecklifter" into Onelook, but nothing came up. I was thinking it lifted "snecks," but then I didn't know what "snecks" are. It definitely sounds like a bona fide word, though.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
I wish I knew what some of them meant. I put "snecklifter" into Onelook, but nothing came up. I was thinking it lifted "snecks," but then I didn't know what "snecks" are. It definitely sounds like a bona fide word, though.

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It is.
"Sneck" is a dialect word for a door latch. Hence "snecklifter" is someone opening a door - presumably to a pub.

Now if only I can work out what a "sheepshagger" is...

"Sheepshagger" was one I had looked up. Since it is a British slang word, I thought maybe you knew it.

I am surprised that "sneck" wasn't in Onelook then. Since it wasn't there, I had assumed it was a name and didn't put it in Google. Now, when I put it in Google, it seems as though it means journey. I assume that's not the case?

Actually a small confesion. On my grandfather's side (several generations removed) I have some Welsh ancestry. I do know what sheepshagger means.

From Kalleh's link:

quote:

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sheepshagger       Noun. A ruralised person. Derog

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quote:

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Originally posted by arnie:
From Kalleh's link:

quote:

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_sheepshagger_      _ Noun._ A ruralised person. Derog

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About the only parts of that that are accurate are "Derog" and "Noun".

And now a selection from the Wolverhampton Beer Festival



Anglo Dutch At T'Ghoul & Ghost
Daleside Old Legover
Harviestoun Bitter And Twisted
Heskett Newmarket Catbells
Inveralmond Lia Fail
Northern Stubbs Thoroghbred
Rudgate Well Blathered
Titanic They Think It's Ale Over
Wye Valley Dorothy Goodbody'd Wholesome Stout
McGuiness Utter Nutter

Okay, arnie and Bob, what does "sheepshager mean then? By defining it as a derogatory form of a "ruralized person," I thought it meant what we'd call a "hick" or a "hillbilly." Is that not what that word means?

As you wish.
It's someone who has sexual relations with a sheep.
(You can tell them, as the old joke goes, because they wander around the hills wearing nothing but a pair of Wellington boots> You can work out why for yourself.)

Well, I suppose I can see how very indirectly that slang definition could have arisen from the real definition.

I think somebody has missed the point about the word sheepshagger. It is rarely used literally, but very commonly used to mean a ruralised person. A sheepshagger is somebody who is less urban than yourself. Coming from Reading, England, the phrase can be used against whole countries (the Welsh), counties (Gloucestershire) or football teams (Swindon) without having to consider bestiality.

Really ?
I agree it's more oftemn used as a mild figurative insult rather in the jocular manner that I might greet a friend with "How've you been you old tosspot."
Other far more insulting words are used by some similarly.
However I've heard it applies as often to people who wouldn't know a cow pat from chocolate bar as I have to rural persons. I don't believe that I've ever actually heard it intentionally used to identify a rural person specifically.

And, of course, I have never heard of "tosspot."

"tosspot" is quite an interesting word. It means (and the derivation is pretty obvious) a drunkard although some people use it as a general low level term of abuse. Those who do are probably confusing it with the word "tosser"" which is a slang term which, like the more offensive "wanker", means someone who masturbates and is also used as a term of abuse.
"tosser" is I believe of relatively modern (ie 20th century) derivation but "tosspot" goes back at least as far as Shakespeare's day and probably much further.

Bob,
Does "tosspot" derive from tossing a pot of waste material? When there were no toilets available?

It's a great word, I'm going to use it! Along with "sheepshagger"...

Nope, it derives from tossing a "pot" of ale down your throat - hence drunkard.

Oh, yes, I agree with KHC that "tosspot" is a great word. I can just visualize someone "tossing a pot of ale" down his throad....and the inevitable consequences.

However, I may hold off on using "sheepshagger," given the differences in its definition. I do like the definition that Graham posted, somebody who is less urbanized than yourself. That would be useful. Having sex with sheep? Not so useful!

Oh, Kalleh,

A good friend wouldn't mind a "How are you, you ole sheepshagger?" greeting.... would they?..

Though it is generally known that men can call their buddies all kinds of things... and we couldn't get away with: "Hey, you fat old broad! How's it hanging?"

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
... "sheepshagger," .... Having sex with sheep? Not so useful!

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I don't know. Bestiality is still practiced in some parts of the country (USA). And it's a more refined word than mutton-fucker. Why do you think they wear those high-topped Engineer boots?

Read how Cecil Adams of the Straight Dope, answers the question, "Has 1 in 8 people had sex with an animal?"

Dear Cecil:

Hello, I've looked around for documentation and evidence to refute or validate the statement my sociology professor made to illustrate that the world isn't really what it seems. He claims that "one out of every eight humans has had sex with an animal." Please respond if you're going to investigate "the old one in eight" as my professor calls it. --Au Simpson

Cecil replies:
Maybe I lack initiative, but this didn't seem like the kind of thing where you could just go out on the street and ask for a show of hands. Instead I camped out in the medical library looking for articles on zoophilia, or the love of one's fellow creatures. Highlights of my results:

According to Alfred Kinsey--you knew I was going to drag him into this--"some 17 percent of the farm boys in our sample had had some sexual contact with farm animals to the point of orgasm, while half or more of the boys from certain rural areas of the United States had had such experience." Kinsey later alludes to the greater tolerance for such things in the west. I take this to mean that in Kinsey's day, when you saw a happy couple walking down the aisle in Wyoming, it was better than even money that the groom had had sex with a sheep.

Not necessarily today, though. Comparative studies of 100 students at the University of Northern Iowa found that in 1974, 11 percent (of college students, mind you) had had sexual contact with an animal, but in 1980 only 3 percent had. Unanswered question: Did this reflect the more conservative national mood heralded by the election of Ronald Reagan or just greater access to color TV?

You think it's just horny farm boys that do this? I have a report about a 42-year-old woman with four children who was five months pregnant. She complained to her doctor of dizziness and fainting and "confessed that approximately 20 minutes prior to her arrival she had had coitus with her German shepherd dog. . . . One or 2 minutes later she began feeling hot, broke out in whelps [!] and felt faint." She was allergic to dog semen, the loser.

Back to statistics. I found a study on the prevalence of bestiality among psychiatric patients, ordinary hospital patients, and psychiatric staff. Its abstract noted: "Psychiatric patients were found to have a statistically higher prevalence rate (55%) of bestiality than the control groups (10% and 15% respectively)." What struck me was not that the first group had a high rate--hey, they were psychiatric patients--but the implication that, as your professor claimed, maybe one in eight ordinary people was doing it with goats. However, it turns out that 2 out of 20 ordinary hospital patients, and 3 out of 20 psychiatric staff (two of them female) had merely fantasized about sexual contact with an animal--none had done anything about it. Still, it's interesting to think that when you're walking down the street looking good, 5 out of 40 people you pass are more interested in your Irish setter.

According to The Encyclopedia of Unusual Sex Practices by Brenda Love (sure), avisodomy is "the ancient practice of having sex with a bird. As the man is about to orgasm he breaks the neck of the bird, causing the bird's cloaca sphincter to constrict and spasm, thus creating pleasurable sensations for the man." Turning the page, I see where "a sheepherder in South Africa evidently became so proficient that he devised a technique whereby he cut two holes at the bottom of his jacket in which to insert the hind legs of sheep to anchor them in place for coitus."

I bet even the sheepherders think this is weird: One fellow with a type of zoophilia called formicophilia "was preoccupied with collecting snails, ants, cockroaches and frogs, and then masturbating while these creatures crawled on his body." After 12 weeks of therapy he was still doing this once a week, but three times a week he was masturbating with conventional porn. Progress!
A study of 51 chronic zoophiles found that for 88 percent of the women the main motive was "emotional involvement," whereas 59 percent of the men said they did it because it was cheaper. Ain't it always the way?
--CECIL ADAMS

I chose to reproduce the article rather than post a link to it because sometimes when you go to a website that talks about bestiality, porn, or whatever, you suddenly begin receiving lots of pop-up ads and sometimes spam, and I don't want to be responsible for this happening to anyone. I took care of my pop-up ad problem with Pop-Up Stopper, by Panicware. I don't remember who recommended it to me, though I think it was from the old APS site a couple years ago. It may have been Richard. Whoever it was, thanks a million. I use the free version of Pop-Up Stopper.

Anyone who still wants to look up the site can search for "straight dope sex animals" on Google.

I started to use astericks to bleep out a word that some consider obscene, but decided not to. I don't like doing that. If I consider a word too filthy for me to print, I usually will just not print it, rather than use astericks. I'm sorry if this offends anyone.

Tinman

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tinman,

Tinman,

That was so refreshing and informative... next time I'm at the park and someone passes with me with a dog larger than Toto, I'm going to have suspicions.

Who confesses to all of this, anyway? Sheepshaggers Anonymous... Hi, my name is Bill and I love to...

....perhaps I am just sheltered. However, I was raised on a farm and grew up around a lot of people from farms. I have never heard of anyone who has done this. I am skeptical

Quote "...I don't remember who recommended it to me, though I think it was from the old APS site a couple years ago. It may have been Richard. Whoever it was, thanks a million. I use the free version of Pop-Up Stopper.
..."

It was, indeed, I who passed on this intelligence.

In fact I no longer use this program since I have found the free one from Google to be as good and provide many more functions. Just go to Google's main site and download their toolbar. This puts a small extra toolbar onto your Explorer screen and this gives instant access to their search facility and other function. It also includes a multi-function popup stopper.

Quote ".......perhaps I am just sheltered. However, I was raised on a farm and grew up around a lot of people from farms. I have never heard of anyone who has done this. I am skeptical..."

I suspect that any young farm lad with designs on your virtue (doubtless your good looks will have attracted many admirers) would have been most unlikely to have shared with you any details of his previous sexual conquests, be they heterosexual, homosexual or bestial. It is my understanding that such boasts do not usually lead to conquest!

But I regret to have to disagree with your scepticism; bestiality is a fairly common sexual practice, biblical prohibition notwithstanding. That is might not be commonly discussed does not mean it doesn't commonly happen.

To draw an analogy; how many men do you know who have admitted that they have used the services of a prositute? Not many, I'll be bound (it's something that men don't even discuss with other men). But prostitution is rife all over the world - and those ladies are all earning their livings at the job.

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard English:

how many men do you know who have admitted that they have used the services of a prositute? Not many, I'll be bound

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Of course you'll have to pay extra for that.

Well, I guess I am sheltered then because, frankly, I would have thought only the mentally ill would do that. You know me, as a literalist I am trying to think how I'd even get my dog to stand still!

BTW, on another subject (she says, gratefully! ), I haven't heard "I'll be bound" used before. Does it mean, "I'm sure?"

Quote "...Does it mean, "I'm sure?"..."

Indeed it does.

Kalleh,
I'll be bound that wordcrafters will hound you... over the mental picture of you trying to get your dog (What's his name?) to stand still...

He might be wanting to get on his hind legs... I'm sorry, this is too funny. I'll stop now.

over the mental picture of you trying to get your dog (What's his name?) to stand still...
She actually has the perfect name for it: Flirt! Yet, I guess it would be more Shu's problem, than mine, since our dog is female....and quite active.

I am still thinking that Richard and Tinman are pulling our legs...though I am not sure. I have been known to take people quite seriously when they really had been teasing...and then being heartily laughed at!

Quote "...I am still thinking that Richard and Tinman are pulling our legs...though I am not sure..."

Not I! The figures might be hard to verify but the practice of bestility is, I assure you, not uncommon.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
I am still thinking that Richard and Tinman are pulling our legs...though I am not sure.

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Absolutely not. One of the strangest conversations I was ever privvy to occurred in my first military tech school back in the summer of 1970 when young men from all parts of the country (not to mention socio-economic strata) were thrown together in a barracks in Biloxi Mississippi. This group included farmboys who literally had never before worn shoes and, on the other end of that spectrum, hard-core inner city kids whose only knowledge of farmlife came from the occasional Disney short subject on TV. Having been born and raised in the suburbs, I fell between these two extremes and, as it turned out, was frequently called upon to translate.

Several of the country boys (for lack of a better term; no disrespect is intended) talked freely and openly about their sexual experiences with animals and were astounded that the city boys were completely inexperienced in this regard. They could barely believe the questions they were asked in that the subject matter involved information readily available to even the dimmest 10-year-old but then the tables would be turned when they asked questions regarding city life. I remember one guy asking, upon being told the population of New York City, "My, God! How high are your water towers?" We laughed ourselves sick but then one of the city guys would ask something equally ridiculous.

It's all a matter of exposure.


For the record:

1.) I have enjoyed the company of paid escorts (going so far, in fact, as to deeply fall in love with one, but that's another story),

2.) The only time I made sexual advances to something with four feet, it was the Johannson twins (and I struck out badly), and

3.) If ever I do decide to wiggle my toes in the mirky waters of bestiality, I definitely will not pay for the priviledge. A man has his standards!


P.S. How did this all end up in a thread titled "Beer Names" with "Cultural Differences 2" right next door?!

It all started with Bob Hale... and his listing of beers at a Beer Festival he attended (June 1st posting). One of them was:

Aviemore Sheepshaggers Gold

... and Kalleh became very inquisitive and Tinman and RE shattered her innocence. And we all digressed from there..

Lassie, come home!!

Quote "...Lassie, come home!!..."

I don't know whether that's a good idea. In spite of the storyline, the part of Lassie was played by a bitch!

No, actually I think you've got it backwards. While "Lassie," of course, is synonymous with "female," the dog itself in all those movies and TV shows was always male. This tidbit, among many others may be found in this page

A few factoids I didn't know:

1. Lassie was always male because a male collie's coat is thicker and, especially in summer, looks more imposing. Males are also generally larger in weight and therefore more heroic looking.

2. Females collies have, however, been stunt doubles for Lassie over the years.

3. Ever notice how the characters "Porky" from the old black & white "Lassie" TV shows and "Pugsley" from the equally black & white "Addams Family" series looked similar? They're half-brothers.

4. Tommy Rettig, the boy in the original series, was allergic to dogs.

5. Cloris Leachman was the original mother in the series but was not happy playing second fiddle to a kid and a dog. When a reporter asked her if she was a fan of Campbell's soup (the show's sponsor) she replied that she never ate "that stuff" but instead made her own soup. She was mysteriously deleted from the cast shortly afterwards.

6. The original Lassie was described as being almost all black and with no white "blaze" on his/her forehead. For years, breeders tried to breed collies without that white stripe, seeing it as taking away from the collie's overall beauty, and then the Lassie movies came out causing the mostly black collie to fall out of fashion with the American public.


Lotsa other interesting stuff there as well.

Kalleh,

How can you go out of town and leave Flirt with Shufitz now?

Kay, you have me in stitches laughing, as I sit in my Washington DC hotel, with Shu at home with Flirt!

I cringe whenever I hear "factoid" used to mean a trial fact. Etymologically it means "resembling a fact"; in other words, a lie. Norman Mailer coined the word in 1973: "Factoids..that is, facts which have no existence before appearing in a magazine or newspaper, creations which are not so much lies as a product to manipulate emotion in the Silent Majority." That's the first citation in the OED Online.

Here's what Wikipedia says about "factoid":

Factoid originally meant a wholly spurious "fact" invented to create or prolong public exposure or to manipulate public opinion and was coined by Norman Mailer in his 1973 biography of Marilyn Monroe. Mailer himself described a factoid as "facts which have no existence before appearing in a magazine or newspaper". Mailer created the word by combining the word "fact" and the ending "-oid" to mean "like a fact". The term is sometimes now also used to mean a small piece of true but often valueless or insignificant information.

The OED Online doesn't even give the "trivia" meaning.

Tinman

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
"I am still thinking that Richard and Tinman are pulling our legs..."

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Kalleh, I wouldn't dare pull your leg. I'll leave that to Shufitz.

Tinman

Interesting. I didn't check but I had heard that the gender reversal was as I stated. However, presumably my source had it wrong if the unofficial Lassie site is to be believed.

Cloris Leachman? The one who was... was it Phyllis on the Mary Tyler Moore Show? *tries to put dates together*

Beer names. No-one's mentioned another superb name/beer combination: Theakston's Old Peculier. By 'eck that's good. Though I did once pass a very enjoyable evening in the wilds of Suffolk discovering Snecklifter.

In reverse order:

1.) Yes, Aput, that was the same Cloris Leachman. In "Lassie" she was a very young (yet extremely mousy-looking) farm wife. I've often found it amusing to consider how some characters grew to other roles based on the fact that the same person portrayed both. In this case, the frowsy "Lassie" mother later in life became the sophisticated and self-important "Phyliss," an odd transition to say the least.

In my favorite transition, involving Stockard Channing, I think it's interesting to consider how Rizzo (from the movie "Grease") later grew up to become First Lady (in the TV show "The West Wing"). Any other examples??

2.) R.E., you referred to "Lassie" as "a bitch" which wouldn't have been a gender reversal at all. And this, obviously, is entirely side-stepping the negative connotations that word carries.

3.) Lastly, and most painfully, Tinman, you have put me into an uncomfortable position. You're correct, yes. "Factoid" originally meant "like a fact" in the same way that "humanoid," a favorite sci-fi term, means "resembling a human." In this light, "factoid" should not be used to mean "a tiny little fact" as I used it above.

And yet it's such a compelling little word. As noted in the imply/infer thread and elsewhere, the language evolves and what was incorrect yesterday may become correct tomorrow. The fact that this is accomplished through the ignorant misuse by the masses is unfortunate but there you have it.

And what other term fills that need? I greatly enjoy "oysterettes" which are those tiny little oyster crackers you can drop into soup or chili in place of saltines. Might a "factette" be a small fact? No, "factette" sounds as if it should follow "sextette," "octette," and whatever other tettes you might have to go through until you reached the "fac" level, whatever that might turn out to be.

I'll compromise. I'll make an effort to rein in my improper use of the word "factoid" and, in those cases in which I do use it, I promise to feel guilty about it. Will that do?

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris J. Strolin:

And what other term fills that need?

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How about "trivia"?

Tinman

The term "trivia" takes in all trivia but what word refers to an individual unit of the stuff? There's "fact," of course, but that also seems too broad a term. That iron is heavy is a fact. That Porky and Pugsley are half-brothers is a... a what?

On the other end of the spectrum there's "triviata" which is trivia that no one in their right mind gives a damn about. For a while, I earned a very meager living as a trivia contest producer. Every once in a while, someone would come up with a trivia question suggestion along the lines of "Who is David Letterman's dentist's dog's name?" Unless the pup is famous in its own right, who cares?

I've not checked but presumably that would be trivium.

I suggested "trivia" as a replacement for "factoids". Rather than "A few factoids ... , I would have written, "Some trivia ..." I assumed the singular would be trivium". But a quick check of some online dictionaries reveals that "trivium" refers to "The lower division of the seven liberal arts in medieval schools, consisting of grammar, logic, and rhetoric". The plural of trivium is trivia. But trivia in the sense of trivial information is treated as both singular and plural. I have not found triviata in any dictionary, only in The Word Spy.

Tinman

Quote: Theakston's Old Peculier. By 'eck that's good. Though I did once pass a very enjoyable evening in the wilds of Suffolk discovering Snecklifter. - aput


Aput - Did you enjoy this evening with any lovable Laddies or Lassies? Just pulling your leg..... the trivia/fact/factoid posts are not any fun.