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Thwarted
October 14, 2002, 19:54
MorganThwarted
I read an article and there was one word that truly stuck in my craw. Here is the paragraph:
"For the last 37 years of his life, he ached at the thought of how close they had come to remarrying, only to be thwarted
by her death." Is this how you would use the word
thwart?
For the record, the article was about Joe DiMaggio and his plans to remarry his ex-wife, Marilyn Monroe.
October 15, 2002, 08:56
arnieI see nothing wrong with this usage. AHD gives:
- To prevent the occurrence, realization, or attainment of:
- To oppose and defeat the efforts, plans, or ambitions of.
October 15, 2002, 10:34
KallehStill, arnie, I see Morgan's point. While the term "thwart" does mean "to prevent the occurence of", I have more often heard it used to mean "to run counter to" or "to oppose". When one dies, the act usually isn't by choice as would be the case with those definitions. Technically it probably works, but for logophiles I think it doesn't.
Morgan, I love posts about correct usage of words!
October 16, 2002, 01:28
arniequote:
I have more often heard it used to mean "to run counter to" or "to oppose".
I haven't. There is always a definite success in preventing whatever the action that is being thwarted. It doesn't just mean "to go against" it means "to go against and
succeed.
October 16, 2002, 01:52
arniequote:
I have more often heard it used to mean "to run counter to" or "to oppose"
This is interesting. I have
never seen the word used in the way you describe. Nor did any dictionary I checked give your definition. I think you must be under a misappreshension. Always implicit is the idea that something is prevented, not just the attempt to prevent.
The phrase "he attempted to thwart my plans" makes perfect sense if we substitute "prevent" for "thwart", but reads as "he attempted to try to prevent my plans" if we use your meaning.
October 16, 2002, 08:07
AngelI think of thwart as something
intentionally done to stop someone. Unless Marilyn intentionally killed herself for the sole purpose of stopping him from marrying her again, I would not use
thwart in this sense.
October 16, 2002, 08:37
KallehYes, Angel, I think of it as intentional, too; thus my comment about death not being by choice (I meant that she did not intentionally die
for the sole purpose of stopping the marriage). Even though in this particular case Marilyn Monroe did die by suicide, she most likely did not commit suicide to prevent the marriage.
Arnie, you are correct about "thwart" meaning to oppose
successfully; I stand corrected. I should have said,
to run counter to so as to effectively oppose. Sorry.
However, Arnie, can you see Angel's distinction?
October 16, 2002, 16:28
shufitzThough I (like Angel) think of the word as limited to
intentional interference, the references tell me I'm mistaken. Cambridge International Dictionary gives as an example,
My holiday plans have been thwarted by the strike.October 16, 2002, 18:32
KallehWell, I hate to give in, but I must. Morgan & Angel, I have seen enough evidence at this point to say that, indeed, Joe DiMaggio used "thwart" correctly. As everyone here knows, I have the utmost respect for arnie's point of view; his ability with words is amazing, and besides that he is one of the best researchers I have ever seen. Coupled with his view, I also have a colleague whom I highly respect with regard to his use of words; he also agrees with arnie. He wrote me the following about "thwart":
"Thwart can indeed be used as being thwarted by death. Any barrier or obstruction can be called a thwart. The plank in a skiff that you sit
on is a thwart because it is crosswise to axis of the skiff."
Then with Shufitz joining those forces, well, I have been thwarted!
October 16, 2002, 20:02
MorganOK... I give. So many people agree, who am I to disagree?

October 17, 2002, 18:18
KallehI read a column using
thwart today:
"He used every trick he could to
thwart the majority of the House and Senate and prevent the creation of thousands of Illinois jobs."
While I waved the white flag in this thread, that use of
thwart--with intention--is how I am accustomed to seeing it used. Live & learn!