On saturday, ZMJ said the upper garment that an Indian woman wears, a Choli, is a "blouse" in English. I argued that I though "blouse" implied loose fitting, as "to blouse," or "become looser." We are both right. Blouse is the accepted translation for a Choli, but in other English contexts, it refers to a loosefitting garment for a woman's upper body. Originally it referred to a loose cotton garment worn by peasants. I also said I thought that before missionaries, etc., Indian women were bare breasted under the sari. Cf. Wikipedia for Choli, for pictures of Cholis in Indian art.
June 18, 2007, 08:15
zmježd
It's all very interesting. Though almost all of my conversations were in English (except a few desperate uses of the Tamil ille 'no' with auto-wallahs), there was a lot of English terms in Tamil conversations I was exposed to, and a lot of Tamil and/or Hindi terms in the English. For example, dhoti was always dhoti (though in Tamil it's a veshti). The choli was always called a blouse in English. (I sat through several marathon sari-buying episodes.) And, as Missann says, the choli is quite tight-fitting. Women sleep in their saris, as men usually sleep in at least short pants or a dhoti, and often a banyan (or US sleeveless t-shirt, UK vest). Finally besides a dress shirt or two that was purchased for me for the two weddings I attended (all major wedding guests have their clothing provided), I also received a rather nice silk kurta (called by my hosts a jipa). Another accessory in Tamil Nadu is a small towel which reminded me of the advice of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe.
[Fixed typos and added link.]This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd,
—Ceci n'est pas un seing.
June 18, 2007, 20:26
Kalleh
I am sorry I missed the chat; it must have been a great conversation. The funny part is that, while I know of the "loose-fitting" definition of "blouse," most blouses these days are quite fitted.
How interesting that all major wedding guests have their clothing provided! Their weddings must be amazing. I had mentioned here before that Shu's parents, during a trip to India, had met a couple who were to be married; the bride and groom-to-be invited them to their wedding because it's good luck to invite a stranger. That wedding was the highlight of Shu's parent's trip.
June 18, 2007, 20:48
<Asa Lovejoy>
quote:
Originally posted by zmježd: For example, Women sleep in their saris, as men usually sleep in ... a bunyan (or US sleeeless t-shirt,
I think the US rednecks refer to that as a wife beater shirt. I assume it's because men so attired are often ill-tempered Schludwiller guzzlers.
June 18, 2007, 21:56
zmježd
How interesting that all major wedding guests have their clothing provided!
And, all the guests get a going away present. Mine was a cloth bag with a coconut, a betel leave, betel nut, and a ten-rupee note (approximately US$0.25).
a wife beater
I'd never heard this term until a teen-aged boy wore one to a dinner at his which I was invited to used it. I immediately thought of Marlin Brando as Stanley Kowalski in A Streetcar Named Desire. I have no idea how it came to be known as bunyan in Anglo-Indian.
—Ceci n'est pas un seing.
June 19, 2007, 03:11
arnie
Have our American cousins heard of the phrase "big girl's blouse"? It's used to describe a rather effeminate man - not necessarily homosexual; I believe the equivalent over there might be "pantywaist".
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Nor I. As for "pantywaist," I have heard it used here, but only by men of my father's generation. My generation might say something like, "He's such an Old Lady," or "What a priss!" Don't know what my sons would say. I'll have to ask them.
Wordmatic
June 20, 2007, 02:58
arnie
I was a little dubious about "pantywaist", as I, too, understood that the word had been in use for some time, so might not be a perfect match nowadays. "Big girl's blouse" is still in common use over here.
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
June 20, 2007, 06:08
<Asa Lovejoy>
The term sounds as if it means a blouse for a corpulent or buxom female, not a man. How'd it come about?
June 20, 2007, 06:56
arnie
No-one really knows. See the link to World Wide Words given by zmj earlier. I like the suggestion at the end:
quote:
... “he’s flapping like a big girl’s blouse”. This conjures up an image of ineffectualness that is plausible as a extended idea from which the current version could have derived.
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
June 29, 2007, 08:26
missann
quote:
"big girl's blouse"
I never heard the term but I agree that a "pantywaist" is not usually a homosexual. It is used to describe a man who is small and gentle natured. I haven't heard the term in years but I think that in my childhood, before we knew there were homosexuals, a bully might torment a smaller boy by calling him a pantywaist.