Is saying Bon Appétit before a good meal really that bad? Of course, I don't speak French, much less live in France, but this writer was roundly criticized by his French wife for saying Bon appétit before dinner.
I guess my question then is, when do you use it?
May 06, 2014, 22:20
arnie
I doubt I'd ever say it, but have had a waiter say it to me at least once. Presumably the waiter was not well brought up either.
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
May 07, 2014, 20:03
Kalleh
I don't say it, either, but we've been in French restaurants where the waiters, who are clearly French, have used the term before eating. Perhaps they think that since we are Americans, we wouldn't know any better?
May 07, 2014, 20:28
<Proofreader>
Generally, before a meal, I say, 'Through the lips and past the gums. Look out, stomach, for here it comes." It sounds crude in English but in French it exudes a devil-may-care attitude.
May 08, 2014, 04:42
Geoff
In my case it's "Ventre, en garde!"
May 08, 2014, 05:48
zmježd
I usually say Guten Appetit 'bon appétit', because that is a habit I got into while living in Germany. Sometimes, to mix it up, I used the more Southern German or Austrian expression Mahlzeit 'meal. repast, (literally, meal time)'. I think the author's wife was traumatized by the foodie equivalent of a Miss Thistlebottom in her formative years. Piffle!
—Ceci n'est pas un seing.
May 09, 2014, 21:02
Kalleh
But, z, you know French. Does Bon appétit have a negative meaning in France? When should (if ever) it be used?
May 10, 2014, 04:22
Geoff
How about bon goût Or Italian buon gusto? Those terms make me wonder why in English we don't have "gust" as a word in this sense, but we use "gustatory, "disgust," and such.
May 10, 2014, 08:06
arnie
We do have 'gusto', meaning 'with relish', so it is obviously related to taste.
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
May 10, 2014, 17:11
Geoff
IIRC, "mucho gusto" in Spanish means either "nice to meet you" or "tastes good." Just hope you don't meet a Spanish cannibal!
May 12, 2014, 07:01
zmježd
K., I'm with the author on this bit about the French saying bon appétit. I've heard them say it and I never saw anybody raise a fuss. I'll ask some native francophones today.
—Ceci n'est pas un seing.
May 12, 2014, 21:05
Kalleh
Thanks, z. His wife is a native francophone, but he has lived in France for years and apparently speaks fluent French.
May 13, 2014, 03:42
arnie
This all sounds reminiscent of Nancy Mitford's and others' 1950s U and non-U English. Perhaps it means France is 60 years behind the times?
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
May 13, 2014, 10:11
Kalleh
That was great, arnie. I enjoyed some of the words. I then looked up Betjeman's poem:
quote:
How To Get On In Society by John Betjeman Phone for the fish knives, Norman As cook is a little unnerved; You kiddies have crumpled the serviettes And I must have things daintily served.
Are the requisites all in the toilet? The frills round the cutlets can wait Till the girl has replenished the cruets And switched on the logs in the grate.
It's ever so close in the lounge dear, But the vestibule's comfy for tea And Howard is riding on horseback So do come and take some with me
Now here is a fork for your pastries And do use the couch for your feet; I know that I wanted to ask you- Is trifle sufficient for sweet?
Milk and then just as it comes dear? I'm afraid the preserve's full of stones; Beg pardon, I'm soiling the doileys With afternoon tea-cakes and scones.
It was interesting to see that the original linguist who wrote about this (Alan Ross at the University of Birmingham) first published it in a Finnish linguistics journal. I wonder why Finnish. Also, Ross wrote about pronunciation, writing styles, as well as vocabulary. The later focus, however, was all on vocabulary.
I found I use both upper and non-upper class vocabulary. For example, I just hate it when people say "pass on." I always use "die." However, I say "glasses," and not "spectacles." I thought "jam" and "preserves" were different.
Very interesting, arnie!
May 13, 2014, 11:01
zmježd
It was interesting to see that the original linguist who wrote about this (Alan Ross at the University of Birmingham) first published it in a Finnish linguistics journal. I wonder why Finnish.
The journal Neuphilologische Mitteilungen is an internationally known one. It may be printed in Finland by a Finnish society (i.e., the Modern Language Society, in Finnish, Uusfilologinen yhdistys ry.), but it has been around since 1899 and has articles on German, Romance, English, and other linguistics/philology. If you look at Ross' list of publications )link) he seems to have published in many non-British journals. It may also be that British journals were not interested in his articles or the subject of them.
[Edited for clarity.]This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd,
—Ceci n'est pas un seing.
May 13, 2014, 19:53
bethree5
Hm, interesting [said the French teacher]. True, I've never taught the expression, & my French cousins don't use it at the table. I've always thought it equivalent to the New York 'Enjoy', likely to be heard in a diner but not at the Four Seasons, I suppose.This message has been edited. Last edited by: bethree5,
May 13, 2014, 20:24
Kalleh
Yes, that's the perfect companion statement in the U.S.
May 14, 2014, 06:09
zmježd
OTOH, if you are dining at a friend's or acquaintance's house in Japan, I assure you you're likely to say 戴きます (itadakimasu) [an expression of gratitude before meals]. The first character means literally 'to be crowned with,; live under a ruler'.This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd,
—Ceci n'est pas un seing.
May 14, 2014, 15:39
Geoff
The Japanese characters didn't show on my computer. What am I doing wrong?
May 14, 2014, 21:25
Kalleh
Not sure - they show on mine.
May 15, 2014, 05:59
zmježd
Not sure, Geoff. Is it a very old computer? What version of the OS are you running?
—Ceci n'est pas un seing.
May 15, 2014, 10:25
arnie
Also, what browser and version are you using?
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
May 15, 2014, 12:19
<Proofreader>
quote:
The Japanese characters didn't show on my computer. What am I doing wrong?
He's kidding you. He still uses pencil and paper (but you need to use rice paper to make Japanese characters).
May 15, 2014, 18:19
Geoff
I have an old computer running Windows XP and using Google Chrome, and HTTPS.