Today the Mid-Atlantic states of the U.S. are under the heavy, windy rain-producing clouds of a "classic Nor'easter," a large area of barometric depression with an eye like a hurricane and counter-clockwise winds. Such storms often produce blizzards along the East coast in the winter.

It suddenly struck me as I was reading about the nor'easter that the media seem to slip into the dialect of a Maine lobsterman when reporting on these storms. Then I looked it up on Onelook, which led me to a Wikipedia Article here. It looks as if there has been a long-term debate over whether the use of "Nor'easter" for "Northeaster" is a "landlubber's affectation" or, well, not. If the use of "nor" for "north" goes back to 1612, why is it any more affected to say "Nor'easter" for Northeaster than it is to say "WUHster" for "Worcester?" And why would a descriptivist like Mark Lieberman be a prescriptivist regarding something that is definitely just a language trend?

Interesting, and I haven't really decided which I prefer. "Nor'easter" sounds more natural to me, since I've heard it so often--and also wild and romantic, like something out of a Conrad novel. "Northeaster" sounds stilted, dull and uninteresting. OK, I have decided. I'm going with "Nor'easter." Does that make me a literary affector, or what?

Wordmatic

quote:

Originally posted by wordmatic:
And why would a descriptivist like Mark Lieberman be a prescriptivist regarding something that is definitely just a language trend?

I don't think he is. In Liberman's actual Language Log post, he just says it's a literary affectation. He might be wrong about that, or he might be right, but I don't see where he's being prescriptive.

Hmm. You may be right. I may have misinterpreted that. I thought, at least, he was being dismissive.

Wordmatic

quote:

why is it any more affected to say "Nor'easter" for Northeaster than it is to say "WUHster" for "Worcester?"

"WUHster" [b]isp/b] the correct pronunciation, or perhaps "WOOster" would be closer.

or perhaps "WOOster" would be closer.

Not sure about the UK, but /ˈwʊstər/ is proper for the city in Massachusetts.

I only meant that perhaps "Nor'easter" is also the "correct" pronunciation.

My husband, who grew up in Upstate New York, says it was always pronounced "Nor'easter" where he comes from--not just recently.

WM

Ayuh. It's ah nar-easta heahabouts.

An elderly roué from Bicester
Behaved, I regret, like a blicester.
After having his way
With young girl one day
That blicester kicester sicester.

Ah the wonders of British place names!

I only meant that perhaps "Nor'easter" is also the "correct" pronunciation.

Most of the citations in the Dictionary of American Regional English (link) agree with Liberman. (See especially the one for 1978 from Yankee.) It does not at all strike me as unusual. And the funny thing is in many of the Northeastern states the regional accents are non-rhotic, so you would expect the r being dropped and not the th. Also, Liberman is not saying that folks should pronounce it one way or another, he's just pointing out that the preferred pronunciation is not what it used to be.

[Addendum: a search on "no'theaster" discloses a bunch of hits on early 20th century literature, especially books by the Cape Code native Joseph C Lincoln (link) which uses this spelling.]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd,

quote:

"Nor'easter" sounds more natural to me, since I've heard it so often--and also wild and romantic, like something out of a Conrad novel. "Northeaster" sounds stilted, dull and uninteresting.

Very interesting. It certainly isn't pronounced that way around here. Indeed, I've never heard it pronounced that way.

Do people say "northeaster" in Chicago?

WM

In New England the pronuncitation is more "Nahr'eastah".

You know, Wordmatic, I just don't know that I've heard it used before. I think we'd say northeaster, but I am not sure.

As your link in Wikipedia says (though it's a year off), the OED's first use of the word is from 1837. Their last quote is here, and I really liked it: "1997 A. R. AMMONS Glare 193 Well, it's Easter morning right now, with a nor'easter, out-of-whack, whipper-jawed, eight-inch dump load of snow on the ground."

Maybe they don't even talk about nor'easters in Chicago, since they're too busy talking about lake effect snow?

WM

Okay, I checked this out with Shu. It seems that he says (and hears) nor'easter. I was wrong.