Never Let a Fool Kiss You or a Kiss Fool You

This phrase, an example of chiasmus (ky-AZ-mus), is also the title of a delightful little book I just found that collects examples. It's easier to grasp the meaning of "chiasmus" from the examples than from the definition: chiasmus: A rhetorical inversion of the second of two parallel structures.

Much fun. What examples can we come up with?

PS: Attention, Winterbranch! This should be fun for you.

PPS: I'm sending a note to the author, Dr. Mardy Grothe, hoping he'll join us here.

I am fond of chiasmus (from the Greek letter chi which looks like our letter 'x').

Why so, jheem? Whats the connection χ (the letter chi) and "chiasmus"? And is chi/cross related to the word "christ"?

Yes, chi-rho (ch and r) are even used in churchs as a simple for Christ. It's from the order of the words in the first phrase being reversed in the second. A : B :: B : A. In your example above, A == fool and B == kiss. I've also seen chiasmus done with nouns and the adjectives that qualify them.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=chiasmus

quote:

---

And is chi/cross related to the word "christ"?

---

The χ character is the initial letter of the word Christ in Greek, and since it resembles the Roman letter X, is used in churches as a symbol for Christ. The most common use is in the word "Xmas".

There used to be an extra-long cigarette with the advertising slogan, "It's not how long you make it; it's how you make it long."

Chiasmus plus double entendre.

Don't know if this applies but my Wordcraft password used to be "craftywords," chosen of course because it was easy to memorize.

I say "used to be" since I have since changed it (for obvious reasons) BUT for some reason, when I exited Wordcraft and re-entered to confirm that my new password worked, the system wouldn't recognize it. Plus it choked on my old "craftywords" as well.

Long story short, it's taken me some 30-45 minutes to figure out that the only solution was to completely register as "Chris J. Strolin" since the system repeated told me that we already have a "C J Strolin" (the implication being that one is more than enough -and yes I've heard that before!) on board.

I am now listed as the board's newest member (no welcoming messages are required, thank you) and, while I was at it, I picked an avatar from the rather meager selection which was available. I chose it because it most closely reflected my personality - part man and part asparagus.

And, speaking of new members, I notice that "light" didn't make the list. Is this all due to the newness of the present system?

Before we return to the subject of chiasmus, question for you greek scholars.

The letter called chi: how is that name pronounced? Is it called "KY" or "CHY"? And when it is used in words, does it have the K sound (as in "Christ" or "chiasmus") or the CH sound?

The article that arnie cited had a nice chiasmus.

What is the difference between JFK (1960) and JFK (2004)?
John F. Kennedy had no problem with charisma, and a bad spine.
John F. Kerry has a bad problem with charisma, and no spine.

For writers are to be polite in every sense, courteous in manner and properly skilled in literature. To 'have to read the sentence twice, even though you didn't want to read it once' is to suffer undeservedly. Worse still is the wince produced by 'genteelisms': 'a forty-minute hike brought the dog and I to the top of the hill.' A belated disciple of Fowler, Amis abhors Elegant Variation: 'If the President seemed to support the Radicals in New York, in Washington he appeared to back the Conservatives.' This is not only Elegant Variation but Pointless Chiasmus, a crime I have only this minute identified.

From Frank Kermode's review of 'The War Against Cliche' by Martin Amis.

The letter called chi: how is that name pronounced? Is it called "KY" or "CHY"? And when it is used in words, does it have the K sound (as in "Christ" or "chiasmus") or the CH sound?

In English, Classical or Modern Greek? In English, it's /kaj/, in Classical Greek is was probably /ki/ and in Modern Greek it's /xi/ (with the /x/ as in chutzpah.

Sign in Einstein's Office:

quote:

Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

Tinman

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

Oh, those are just great! Did you come up with that one yourself, Sean?

Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught.

~ Winston Churchill

No Kalleh, I'm afraid not. That is the old classic example of Chiasmus, which I learned junior year in high school. I've pretty much forgotten all the other examples, but that one is just so poetic that you can't forget it. I say it about once a month, in various circumstances. I consider it the crowning achievement of the English language.

Found this great site http://www.chiasmus.com/typesofchiasmus/phonetic.shtml

It talks about the frontal lobotomy Chiasmus, which was written by by an Atlanta physician named Dr. Randy Hanzlick--who writes songs as a hobby, the lyrics of the song are here http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/i/idratherhaveabottleinfrontofme.shtml

Some other good examples listed are
"Here's champagne to our real friends,
and real pain to our sham friends"

Another good one is looking forward to some S & M,

"It's bound to be fun,
(And fun to be bound.)"

After reading that first site, lots of props to Jerry Thomas, who'll know why. : )

Here's a chiasmus that came to my mind:

A hard man is good to find.

~ Mae West

That's great, G9! You're going to fit in here quite well!

quote:

Originally posted by G9Poof: "A hard man is ... "
Originally posted by Kalleh: "... going to fit in"

Ladies, please!!!!

<smiles>

I'm not quite sure how that fits into the category of Chiasmus, but then again, I don't quite get another example from the aforementioned website "In Xanadu did Kubla Khan".

Can I live it down tomorrow if I live it up tonight?

From the Daily Show tonight, "George Bush declined to speak for the NAACP for five years in a row, due to scheduling conflicts. He was too busy scheduling conflicts.

I was just reading an article which mentioned the ratio of men to women in the State of Alaska are 8:1. It then stated "The odds are good, but the goods are odd."