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hardball v fastball

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March 26, 2006, 09:26
dalehileman
hardball v fastball
Former usu def as "a no-nonsense attitude in business or politics", but I can't find much support for the latter as a slang expr. Why do you suppose not...
March 26, 2006, 17:47
Kalleh
I was fascinated looking into this usage of hardball. Etymology.com said that the use you describe was from 1973, but I didn't believe that. I thought for sure that particular usage had been used earlier, so I checked the online OED. Sure enough, the first site they cite is this: "1973 P. J. BUCHANAN in Black Panther 6 Oct. 17/3 There are things that are certainly utterly outrageous... Then, there is dirty tricks, then there is political hardball, then there is pranks." I am shocked that this usage is so new. It was used to mean baseball from 1888.

For fastball the online OED gives this site from 1978, "1978 M. PUZO Fools Die xxi. 233 Cully would be in the clear, he had not tried to throw a fastball by Gronevelt." You are right that it isn't nearly as commonly used, and I have no idea why.
March 26, 2006, 18:12
<Asa Lovejoy>
I'll bet it was used earlier than Pat Buchanan's cited example, but not recorded. I believe I heard it as a kid in the fifties.

What about the expression, "underhanded?" is that a softball metaphor?
March 27, 2006, 02:23
arnie
quote:
"underhanded?" is that a softball metaphor?
I wouldn't say so. Basicly, it means "deceitful". I'd say it refers to a conjurer or card sharp using sleight of hand to fool people. It dates from the 16th century, and I don't think baseball or softball are that old. Wink


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
March 31, 2006, 15:56
dalehileman
Bakersfield republican Bill Thomas...would retire next January....saying he wanted to retire while he still had his fastball--McClatchy Newspapers circa March 7

This was the first instance I had encountered the term used in this metaphoric way and hence I wonder if anyone else has heard this or a similar usage
March 31, 2006, 21:05
Kalleh
I hadn't. It's an interesting use, though.
April 03, 2006, 08:19
Robert Arvanitis
I recall a movie where the bad guys threaten a newspaper editor, saying that they'll "play hardball."

The editor, undeterred, replies "OK boys, my glove is oiled and cleats are sharpened..."

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The contrast is with softball, as presumably the less-dangerous form of the sport. See also the idea of friendly reporters who "lob a softball question."


RJA