Over at the OEDILF one of my very old and previously overlooked limericks has been commented on. <BR>I agree with the workshopper that it's seriously flawed (i.e. Don't bother checking it out) and I should fix it.<BR><BR>What I do depends on the answers to this poll (which is also running over there)How many syllables do you think there are in the word<BR><BR>antinepotism?an-tee-NEP-ot-ism (5, 1 stress)an-tee-NEP-ot-iz-um (6, 1 stress)an-tee-NEP-ot-IZ-um (6, 2 stresses)something else: please specify

Bob, I pronounce it: an-tie-NEP-oh-tizm, and I voted as such. I am happy to look at it for you.

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
Bob, I pronounce it: an-tie-NEP-oh-tizm, and I voted as such. I am happy to look at it for you.

Wait until I've rewritten it. There's a lot more wrong with it than that and I'll be redoing it completely. It isn't worth WSers spending time on something I'm intending to scrap anyway.

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I pronounce it: an-tie-NEP-oh-tizm, and I voted as such

You must have chosen the wrong box, Kalleh. There is only one vote so far for that method, (1.), and I voted that way before you. I hope you do better in the mid-terms!

Hmmm, I must have forgotten the actual vote; you are correct, Arnie.

On the other hand, it's a good thing. I don't say "an-tee;" I say "an-tie." So I am now going to vote (if my memory stays with me this time!) for the last selection.

Does anyone really consider "ism" to be a single syllable? Certainly it is shorter than "an-tie" or "an-tee", but I can't justifiably cram it into one syllable.

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Originally posted by Seanahan:
Does anyone really consider "ism" to be a single syllable? Certainly it is shorter than "an-tie" or "an-tee", but I can't justifiably cram it into one syllable.

And that of course is a valid point that I have repeatedly tried to raise on WSing of some of my limericks at the OEDILF. The general wisdom there is that a syllable is a syllable is a syllable. Anapest it two unstressed syllables followed by a stressed one. Triple anapest is three of those.

The common example is "fire" which to me is one syllable even though I pronounce it exactly the same as some who consider it two. "ism" is another one. The trick is to choose whichever is more convenient for your rhyme or metre and claim it to be correct. But I GUARANTEE that whichever way you jump someone will want you to jump the other way.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The idea of syllable counting is a crude approximationm, at best, to how poetry is constructed.

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Does anyone really consider "ism" to be a single syllable?

Before our discussions here about "fire" or "world," I would have said that "ism" has 2 syllables. However, after some excellent discussions here, I have changed my mind. I see "ism" as having 1 syllable.

[BTW, after seeing Tinman's nice explanation, I realize that he hasn't been here in awhile. I miss him!]

Yes, "ism" is one syllable. Arguments of this sort drove me away from OEDILF in the first place.

"ism" is certainly two syllables for me. It's got two vowel sounds. But that doesn't mean it's two syllables for all speakers.

Unless by "syllable" we mean "how to hyphenate", in which case it is one syllable.

You're right, this is a flame war waiting to happen. I can see "fire" and "world" as one or two syllables, depending on how you say it. There are many other words which I pronounce in one way, but can see an alternative. However, I just can't possibly cram "ism" into one syllable. For example, I say "ism" the same as I "schism", which I think clearly has two syllables.

Don't worry, I'm not going to get into an argument about it. It doesn't even seem like something that's possible to argue about!

Yes, I agree, Gooofy. Besides that, this isn't a flamewar sort of board. We really haven't had one since this board started.

However, arnie, I don't think it's a closed case that "ism" is one syllable. It really does depend on your accent. From my recent trip to England, it is clear that English speakers talk faster than American ones. That's certainly one issue. Also, I think it comes down to how you define a syllable. That's how I changed my mind about "world" and "fire." Specifically, that post by Tinman (in the link) was excellent.

I was not trying to say that it's a closed case. For me, it is one syllable. For others it may not be. As I said, interminable arguments like this, which no-one can possibly win, drove me away from OEDILF.

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antinepotism:
an-tee-NEP-ot-ism
an-tee-NEP-ot-iz-um
an-tee-NEP-ot-IZ-um

I wouldn't pronounce it any of these ways.

the second vowel sound would be a short i as in tin, not teen or Kalleh's tine.

the second t would be part of the fourth syllable, not the third.

the last part would be a single syllable with a secondary stress.

Hence an-ti-NEP-o-TZm

I pronounce it: [ˌʔæn tʰi ˈnɛ pʰo tʰɪ zəm]. In IPA, of course, no budweiserly, ad hoc phonetic transcription systems for me, thank you very much.

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Originally posted by zmjezhd:
I pronounce it: [ˌʔæn tʰi ˈnɛ pʰo tʰɪ zəm]. In IPA, of course, no budweiserly, ad hoc phonetic transcription systems for me, thank you very much.

Which would be my preferred system, of course, but given that what I have on my screen includes nine little "unknown symbol" squares I can't actually work out what your answer is.

Which would be my preferred system, of course, but given that what I have on my screen includes nine little "unknown symbol" squares I can't actually work out what your answer is.

That's too bad. Let me guess, you're using IE under Windows? Renders A-OK in Mozilla or Firefox on Windows or MacOS. Leave it to the Gates Continuum to not support Unicode in their own browser. (BTW, your cutting and pasting of the example still display properly with a proper web browser.) But, I apologize for making an ass of myself, Bob, and meekly submit the following pronunciation in the full American glory of ASCII:

I pronounce it: /,{n ti: 'nE poU tI z@m/ in SAMPA. I hope that shows up properly in your browser.

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Renders A-OK in Mozilla or Firefox on Windows

And in Opera!

Actually, I just fired up IE7 to take a look and that displays the characters properly, too.

fired up IE7 to take a look

I haven't upgraded yet, because I so rarely use IE, but I'd heard that IE7 supported the W3C standards better.

I'm using IE6

And I don't want to take the two days (only a slight exageration) it would take to download IE7 on dial up or the month (probably an optimistic estimate) that it would take to make everything work again afterwards.

Ah, now I have it in SAMPA I'd sat that it corresponds pretty much to my 2nd option.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BobHale,

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Originally posted by BobHale:
Ah, now I have it in SAMPA I'd sat that it corresponds pretty much to my 2nd option.

SAMPA, IE6, IE7, W3C …
What impressively arcane intelligence.
Anything to do with words or wordcrafting?

Anything to do with words or wordcrafting?

Yes.

AN-ti-NEP-o-tism

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Originally posted by Richard English:
AN-ti-NEP-o-tism

Really? With first syllable stress? I find it almost impossible to pronounce that way.

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Really? With first syllable stress? I find it almost impossible to pronounce that way.

It's how I'd say "anti-Dudweiser"