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December 13, 2004, 09:27
shufitz
Ukraine
It seems that country-names have political meanings. From the papers:
December 15, 2004, 18:13
Caterwauller
So, by that standard it is demeaning to call our country THE United States of America? Nah - I guess it's the border thing. Interesting, Shu! Thanks for sharing!


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December 15, 2004, 18:39
jheem
The Germans call Switzerland die Schweiz, and I assume Swiss germanophones do likewise. Since Ukrainian, like Russian, doesn't have articles, how can they be sure it's demeaning. Foolishness. Also, Ukraine doesn't mean anything like border in English; it means the name of a country in the former USSR/Russian Empire.
December 16, 2004, 19:13
Kalleh
Still, it's interesting to me that some cities and countries have articles, and some don't. While CW is right we do say "the United States of America," we surely don't say "the America" or "the England," yet we do say "the United Kingdom." We say "the Netherlands" and "the Hague," but "Norway" and "Paris." The only 2 that make a little sense to me is "the United States" and "the United Kingdom" because of the "united" concept.
December 16, 2004, 21:02
<Asa Lovejoy>
quote:
Originally posted by shufitz:
It seems that country-names have political meanings. From the papers:To this day, many Russians deny that a separate Ukranian nation exists.



Isn't it a verb? I krane, U krane, he, she,it kranes, we krane, you (pl) krane, they krane.
December 17, 2004, 02:03
aput
English uses 'the' either when there's an explicit toponym with a qualifier (the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, the River Rhine, the Baltic Sea, the Mendip Hills), or in many cases where there's an implicit toponym: either one of the above with it omitted (the Rhine, the Baltic), or where the toponym isn't normally used (the Cairngorms [mountains], the Solent [straight]).

This has been made official in the country name of The Gambia, where the Gambia is the river running through it; on the other hand the countries of Maldives and Solomon Islands both specify that there's no 'the' in their name.

However there are also some regions where it's not obvious (to me, because I don't know the local geography enough) what the underlying toponym is, if any: the Dordogne, the Ardenne.
December 17, 2004, 18:19
shufitz
How intriguing that soon after saying, "It seems that country-names have political meanings," I should run into this example.

Is 'the United States' a singular entity or a plural entity? Does one say, "The United States are doing thus-and-so," or "The United States is doing thus-and-so"? Obviously, the answer reflects the degree to which the individual states are viewed as autonomous entites -- the underlying issue of our Civil War.

This came to mind from a book review, in the newspaper, of 1812 by Walter R. Borneman, which deals with the War of 1812:It would be interesting to know when this usage did in fact evolve.