At the risk of reopening old wounds

March 19, 2003, 01:08

Richard English

Seems fine to me.

I never did get an answer from any one of those who prefer the construction "boss'" rather than "boss's" for the singular possessive, as to how the word "boss'" would be pronounced in the sentence "...the boss' office...". However, if, as I suspect, it is pronounced "bossiz" then I see no reason why it should be written "boss'"

I agree with the TES, although I would also suggest the converse of their slogan also applies in this situation, "...If you can hear it, write it..."

Richard English

March 19, 2003, 07:14

<Asa Lovejoy>

agree with the TES, although I would also suggest the converse of their slogan also
applies in this situation, "...If you can hear it, write it..."
______________________________________

Agreed, RE. In my mind, "boss'" represents the sound, "bossez," the apostrophe providing the "ez" pronunciation cue.

March 19, 2003, 07:31

Graham Nice

Good old TES. I liked the stress on the fact that it doesn't really matter too much either way! What an excellent thing it is to be a teacher in England.

March 19, 2003, 14:45

C J Strolin

AUUUUGH!!! I'm BLEEDING!! Who reopened that old wound!!!

Actually I'm pretty much OK with this article seeing as how the main point seems to be "don't sweat the small stuff." As you may recall, I altered my view on this pressing matter following a sprited discussion (i.e. "fight") on the "boss' desk vs. boss's desk" question when I was seduced over to the other side by logic similar to that presented here. If you hear it, write it. Works for me.

The word "princess's's" however?? I doubt you could pronounce that without doing a fair impression of a bicycle tire with a slow leak.

March 19, 2003, 15:23

Duncan Howell

quote:
Originally posted by C J Strolin:
The word "princess's's" however?? I doubt you could pronounce that without doing a fair impression of a bicycle tire with a slow leak.

I cannot worry about having to pronounce such a word, because I cannot imagine ever encounterng it. Have I led a sheltered existence, or something? No. I've been out and about on this planet for quite a while now, but I've NEVER seen a word (as far as I can recall) with TWO apostrophes.(Oh, yes...Mrs. O'Leary's cow excepted!) I had to go back twice to the TES link to figure out that "princess's's" means...well....what the hell does it mean?? Does the first apostrophe show possession and the second apostrophe indicate a contraction of "is" ('s)...or what? I have a warm spot in my heart for the apostrophe, but I fear that weird concoctions like "princess's's" are not going to make any new friends for my favourite little inkblot!

March 19, 2003, 15:46

C J Strolin

The word (?) "Princess's's" serves only one purpose and that is as an answer to the riddle "What word in the English language (though God knows this is debatable) contains four of the same letter in succession?" When the answer is given, of course, you are lucky if the recipient of this news does nothing more than roll his eyes is disbelief and disgust.

(Me, I carry a sharp stick for just these sorts of occasions.)

March 19, 2003, 15:59

Duncan Howell

quote:
Originally posted by C J Strolin:
The word (?) "Princess's's" serves only one purpose and that is as an answer to the riddle "What word in the English language (though God knows this is debatable) contains four of the same letter in succession?"

O.K. So, lemme see....What we got here is a failure to communicate. What we got here is a fake answer to a fake riddle. Whoever made this up just gotta get out more!

Here's a similar thing..but legitimate!
What common English word has three consecutive double letters? (As in "abbccddedf")

March 19, 2003, 16:19

Morgan

quote:
Here's a similar thing..but legitimate!
What common English word has three consecutive double letters? (As in "abbccddedf")

Oh Dangit, Duncan! I was going to answer "bookkeeper" and then I saw the word consecutive in your question! You got me on this one!

March 19, 2003, 16:24

LadyBeth

quote:
What common English word has three consecutive double letters? (As in "abbccddedf")

succeedded?

(Not sure if I spelled that right. Are there 2 "d's" after the "e"?)

March 19, 2003, 19:42

Kalleh

Back to the original question, for a minute...I don't agree. I like black and white rules. Look at the differences in pronunciations that we've mentioned on this board! I spoke to someone today from Mississippi--good grief! I think the rule should be very clear, "apostrophe 's'", no matter how the word ends or how it is pronounced. Period. End of story.

Truly, I don't mean to be disagreeable. The fact is, it is easier if the rule is clear.

March 20, 2003, 02:52

Richard English

Of course not. And you wouldn't need to since the word does not exist.

I suspect that the TES was printing what we in the UK call a "joke".

The prince's hat means a hat belonging to one prince; the princess's hat means that hat belonging to one princess.

If there are two or more royals, then it's the princes' hat or the princesses' hat. There is no second apostrophe. Although there is the risk of confusion, I agree, it is not likely since the sense of the sentence will be clear in context.

Richard English

March 20, 2003, 06:45

Duncan Howell

As far as I know, the only English word with three consecutive double letters is.."bookkeeper".

LadyBeth---good try with "succeedded"--but no cigar!

Morgan--- of course, you got it right, but then you questioned my use of "consecutive". First I thought you were pulling my leg and then I wondered if I had used the word incorrectly. I wondered if there is some nuance to "consecutive" that I missed. My Oxford says that there is a particular grammatical application of the word which means "having consequence". Not sure if I know what that means.

March 20, 2003, 08:04

tsuwm

Morgan's reply puzzled me also, but now I'm betting that she took your example (abbccddefg) as meaning aphabetically consecutive, as in bbccdd. if I'm wrong, you may hang me in eeffgg.

March 20, 2003, 17:38

TrossL

quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Howell:
As far as I know, the only English word with three consecutive double letters is.."bookkeeper".

What about bookkeeping?

March 21, 2003, 05:53

Duncan Howell

quote:
Originally posted by TrossL:
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Howell:
As far as I know, the only English word with three consecutive double letters is.."bookkeeper".

_What about _bookkeeping_?_

Well, you're absolutely right. I was expecting that someone would suggest "bookkeepers" but perhaps I should have seen the gerund coming, too!

O.K. There are three words with three consecutive double letters.

March 21, 2003, 11:08

Richard English

Of course, I would not want to mention the person who looks after the rooks in the rookery...!

Richard English

March 21, 2003, 12:57

C J Strolin

Or the individual given the task of keeping geeks in line.

or:

"I've been informed that the meek shall inherit the earth eventually. Until then, we're going to collect and keep them penned up. You, there! I am hereby appointing you the official..."

or:

"I've been informed (by sources better in tune with human nature) that the crooks shall inherit the earth..."

All in all, with a little imagination there are quite a few words that fit that description. Put them all into a double dactyl and then you've got something!

March 22, 2003, 02:36

arnie

I suppose someone who gets his kicks spying on sheep would be a sheeppeeker.

March 22, 2003, 05:01

Duncan Howell

quote:
Originally posted by Richard English:
Of course, I would not want to mention the person who looks after the rooks in the rookery...!

Richard English

Of course! And I forgot about the:

Cookkeepers, who administer the chef schools of France.

Gookkeepers, who tend the slime on the garage floors of America.

And the...

Hookkeepers, down at my local fishing supply store.

How did I possibly miss those???!!!