There is a French word, rentier, that means one who lives solely off his/her investments. First of all, wouldn't that be nice? But, from a Wordcraft perspective, does English have a word that means living off your investments?

Gigolo?

I think that's endowment, not investment, unless you mean that "investing" his endowment creates his in-come.

wordreference.com translates un rentier as "a gentleman of means"

Well, then, the author of the article didn't have the right definition, did he? Interesting!

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Well, then, the author of the article didn't have the right definition, did he?

Looks OK to me. Why do you feel the definition is wrong?

To me (but I may be wrong) a "gentleman of means" is different from "living off your investments." Heck, with the latter definition it could be a woman. Plus a "gentleman of means" could be one for many reasons and not just living off investments.

A "gentleman" is not necessarily one who works. He may do some form of work, but he has investments (usually land) that supply his main income. That pretty well covers a rentier. I still don't see how you think the definition is wrong. Imprecise, maybe, but not wrong.

Okay, I'll agree with imprecise.

I guess I don't see "gentlemen" the same way you do. I think of a "gentleman" as being a courteous man, but I don't relate the definition with wealth or especially investments. Is this maybe an English/American difference?

I do notice that in Dictionary.com, some definitions mention "social position." But then, others don't. This definition is how I see it: "a civilized, educated, sensitive, or well-mannered man." From that definition, he could be poor and not have any investments...unless by virtue of being well educated you assume the man is wealthy.

A gentleman is a social position. He is not a member of the peerage or royalty, but is one step down in class - the local squire, the rector, the university don.

The meaning of "gentleman" has changed over the last century or so. Before the first world war someone living on their investments was by definition a gentleman. In essence, they were a member of the upper classes. They looked down on those in trade (middle classes). They hardly noticed those who did manual labour. In general, they tended to be better educated than the middle classes (mainly because a good education cost money), and tended to provide the clergy, politicians, army officers, and suchlike.

After the war things all changed, and an entire generation was close to being wiped out. The description of someone who was not in fact by birth a gentleman as a "true gentleman" or "one of nature's gentleman" started to be applied as a term of praise to some who were in fact middle- or working-class but exhibited some of the traits of a gentleman. Since then, it has degenerated (if that's the word) to its current use, which is more or less as a synonym for "man".

More earthily, the doors to most restrooms here are labelled "Gentlemen" and "Ladies" (although there are plenty of variants).

& just a note that the French definition does not rule out women; the feminine form "rentie're" would be the counterpart.

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A gentleman is a social position.

Granted, the English were around before the Americans, so I'll give you that. However, (unless I am wrong, Americans?) that's not how we in the U.S. think of gentleman.

Yes, what we have here is the subtle, but inevitable, parting of semantic ways between the two sides of the pond. But, even the American Heritage Dictionary gives more than one definition of the word gentleman: viz. "3. A man of independent means who does not need to have a wage-paying job." (link) And, notice that the first gloss quotes Mrs Aphra Behn, a 17th century British author.

Well, then I must be wrong. However, I certainly had never equated the word gentleman with wealth. I've seen some really ungentlemanly men who live off their large investments. I've also seen some consummate gentlemanly types who live day to day, financially.

What's a "yob"? From where I came across it, one cannot be an English gentleman.

A yob is a Norwegian's work.

Kalleh, my point was that there are many meanings for the word gentleman. You seem to only use it as a compliment of a man's social aplomb. There are other meanings, like with most words. On of the meanings of gentleman is a person of independent means. I am not quite sure which meaning preceded the other.

Yob is short for yobbo is slang for an uncouth working-class person. It's British English and is boy reversed, some say.

[Fix typo on formatting.]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd,

It always strikes me as incongruous that gentleman is used in sentences such as "Then the gentleman shot my wife in the face" (an actual comment during a crime show interview).

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Kalleh, my point was that there are many meanings for the word gentleman.

Well, arnie seemed to think that it only meant a wealthy man.

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Well, arnie seemed to think that it only meant a wealthy man.

No. Remember, this conversation started out to define rentier.

Yes, arnie, but then like many conversations here, it meandered a bit. Anyway, do you define all gentlemen as wealthy or just some? If it's the latter, I could agree with you, but then I wouldn't see it as any different from the word "man" (at least when it comes to "wealth"). Some men (gentlemen) are wealthy; others are not.

No, wealth doesn't necessarily come into it. Although many gentlemen are wealthy, not all are.

And...many men are wealthy; not all are.

So we are in 100% agreement.

The fact is, I do think that England uses the word "gentleman" a little differently from those of us in the U.S. It's just a hunch and not based on much evidence (except what I've seen here over the years).