February 14, 2009, 20:07
<Asa Lovejoy>It takes the biscuit/cake
Whence comes this expression? Biscuit is more common in the UK, whereas cake is normal for the US, but surely they're parallel expressions. I don't know where they came from, though.
February 14, 2009, 20:17
KallehI found this on the Web but have no idea if it's correct:
quote:
According to the Dictionary of American Slang by Robert Chapman, the term "takes the cake" was in use by 1847 and came from the prize awarded in black American dancing competitions known as cakewalks.
I am wondering, though, do the British say, "that takes the biscuit?"
February 14, 2009, 20:26
<Asa Lovejoy>quote:
Originally posted by Kalleh:
I am wondering, though, do the British say, "that takes the biscuit?"
I've seen it used on various boards with UK residents participating.
February 15, 2009, 08:33
<Asa Lovejoy>Quinion debunks the cakewalk as the source, but he doesn't get us any further. Contrary to what he wrote, the Brits I've been in contact with use it in a positive way, suggesting a prize won in a proper manner.
How do you use it, arnie?
February 15, 2009, 10:25
arnieThe same way as Quinion does.
February 15, 2009, 12:04
jerry thomasAre computer "cookies" called
"biscuits" by the British computer users ??
February 15, 2009, 12:12
tinmanquote:
Originally posted by arnie:
The same way as Quinion does.
That's not the way I interpret it. He says
quote:
Take the biscuit could once mean winning or excelling. ... But these days, it’s an exclamation to suggest that somebody has done something unprincipled that would win them a prize in a contest of unethicalness.
I've never heard the phrase before.
February 15, 2009, 14:20
Richard Englishquote:
Are computer "cookies" called "biscuits" by the British computer users ??
No.
February 15, 2009, 15:46
Kallehquote:
I've never heard the phrase before.
Tinman, I am not sure which phrase you've never heard before.
I wonder where it does come from. Quinion disputes it coming from cakewalks, but really doesn't provide any evidence (it's hard to provide evidence that a word didn't exist before a certain time; the opposite is a lot easier.) I couldn't find it in OED.
February 15, 2009, 17:11
tinmanquote:
Originally posted by Kalleh:
quote:
I've never heard the phrase before.
Tinman, I am not sure which phrase you've never heard before.
I wonder where it does come from. Quinion disputes it coming from cakewalks, but really doesn't provide any evidence (it's hard to provide evidence that a word didn't exist before a certain time; the opposite is a lot easier.) I couldn't find it in OED.
Takes the biscuit.
Quinion does say that it may have come from ancient Greece, as does
this source:
quote:
Ancient Greece
Cakes during the 5th century were a confection of toasted cereal sweetened and bound together with honey given to soldiers as a prize for being the most vigilant on watch (no doubt it was an excellent source of energy for these fighting men), during this era Aristotle in the "The Knights" said:
"if you surpass him in impudence, then we take the cake"
So we end up with at some stage (5th or 19th century [to allow us some options]) take the cake was synonymous with winning a prize, with the development of Biscuits (14th century), if you wanted to be ironic about someone's performance you would claim they took the biscuit (being a smaller and less appetizing version of the cake). Later (around the early 20th century), the meanings of both take the biscuit and take the cake began to merge, where we are at today, where they mean the same thing.
I spoke too fast, arnie. I thought you were responding to Asa's assertion that most Brits he has contact with use it in a positive way. I thought you were saying that Quinion uses it that way, too. I managed to miss Asa's last sentence and I realize you were responding to that. Sorry. I need to read more carefully.