Why, do you suppose, have such diphthongs as "ae," as in "encyclopaedia," or "orthopaedic," disappeared from American English?

I am not sure, but in medicine they appear all the time in English literature, though not in American literature. For example, it is dyspnoea in England and dyspnea in America--quite confusing. There are many, many more examples.

Well, THAT'S a breath of fresh air!

I cannot tell you the number of times I have had publications sent back to me with the editor asking, "Is it dyspnea or dyspnoea"? If I am quoting an article from England, I always use their spelling, though my editors thinks if I am writing from the USA I should use our spelling. For example, the article title from England or Canada will read, "How Do You Manage Dyspnoea?" I will quote it as such--but get it sent back.

I can't believe I'm citing Walt Disney as evidence that anti-diphtongia is not a recent development. But remember Jiminy Cricket's song:

The Ennnnnnnnnn ... cyclopedia,
Ee En Cee Wie Cee Ell O Pee Ee Dee Iye Ay

" But remember Jiminy Cricket's song:

The Ennnnnnnnnn ..."

cyclopedia,
Ee En Cee Wie Cee Ell O Pee Ee Dee Iye Ay"

That just goes to show that the proper spelling just ain't cricket.

Noah Webster of Webster's Dictionary fame is the guy to blame/praise for the lack of diphthongs in American spelling. It's another example of his simplification exercises, in the same way as the English "traveller" is spelt "traveler" in America.

"It's another example of his simplification exercises, in the same way as the English "traveller" is spelt "traveler" in America."

I find this very curious. The word "spelt" is correct according to my dictionary, however, the preferred spelling here, in the US is "spelled", a much longer word!

Another difference in "English" English and "American" English. "Spelt" and "spelled" are both used in the UK as the past participle of "to spell", whereas only the latter is common in America.

Welcome, Arnie!
Oh my gosh! There are so many medical terms which are spelt (!) differently in England and Canada, such as orthopaedic & dyspnoea. Do you know if that happens just to be a medical quirk, or are other words like that?

Another curiosity: Once upon a time the past tense of the act of killing a person by hanging was "hanged." Nowadays, I only hear "hung." Hearing someone say that someone was hung still makes me think that the speaker is referring to the size of a man's bits and pieces.

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Do you know if that happens just to be a medical quirk, or are other words like that?

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Encyclopaedia/encyclopedia has already been mentioned. Paedophile/pedophile is another. Aeroplane/airplane could be counted as well.

Most of these words came from the Greek language. Greek physicians were reckoned to be the best in the ancient world (the Hippocratic oath was named after a famous Greek doctor, Hippocrates) and many of the names they gave to diseases/symptoms are still in use today. In lots of cases, new medical words were coined from Greek roots to follow the convention.

"Most of these words came from the Greek language."

Ah, yes, like "hippocampus." Greek for "seahorse," yet it sounds like a Latin/Greek coinage for "horse's field." So, what's one of those critters doing buried deep within our brains?

Remember, Google is your friend! :-)

According to this site it got its name because its shape resembles that of a seahorse.

arnie posted "Google is your friend! :-)"

I think if you type that last symbol without the dash in the middle (in other words, just the colon follwed by the close-paren), the board's software will convert it into an icon for you.

Doing so here, as a test:

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the board's software will convert it into an icon for you.

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Yup. The board's FAQ mentions it here.

Well, thanks admin and arnie! Now I know how to wink at you guys!

By the way, very nice to see a Londoner on board! Welcome!

Edit: Hmmmmmmm....looks like for the , you can't make it a capital O...just for future reference!

[This message was edited by Morgan on Wed Jul 17th, 2002 at 06:26 PM.]

Hello people, I'm new here and I'd thought I'd start putting my two cents in! To get back to the original question about the diphthongs, 'ae' and 'oe' are transliterations of the Greek diphthongs alpha-iota and omikron-epsilon respectively. That's why you find these in Greek words, not only ones related to medicine, such as 'archaeology' and 'oeconomics' (yes, it was spelled that way once upon a time). You might have seen in older editions these diphthongs printed with a symbol that makes them look like they're squished together. However, the tendency has been in recent years to simplify spellings, especially in American spelling. Both are correct, depending on which side of the Atlantic you're on.

As for the 'spelled'/ 'spelt' issue, I think that the length of a word does not necessarily determine how difficult it is. The -ed ending is a regular form of the past, thus making it easier, while 'spelt' is an irregular form and more difficult.

I think that was more than two cents' worth - more like 20 Euros' worth!

Those symbols "that makes them look like they're squished together" are technically called ligatures. The word comes from our old friend Latin, ligatus, bound, from ligare, to bind.

Let's try out a couple:

Archæology
œconomics

Thanks for that bit of information, arnie! How did you type those by the way? Are they in the symbols menu in 'Word'? Do you know if they're still used? And will they help me stretch my ligaments?

Not to interrupt that question to arnie, but did you notice that the features of etc. are called instant graemlins in the board's software?

" think that was more than two cents' worth - more like 20 Euros' worth!"
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Hello, Museamuse! Funny that you should mention your homeland, as it came up in conversation last night with a friend. I mentioned that another friend had been one of the MIT whiz-kids who designed and built the human-powered airplane that attempted to replicate the Daedalus and Ikarus legend. A Greek cyclist powered it from Crete to Santorini, establishing the world record for human powered flight. Did you know about this? It hapened in the mid-1980s

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How did you type those by the way? Are they in the symbols menu in 'Word'? Do you know if they're still used? And will they help me stretch my ligaments?

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Well... a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. I happen to know HTML (the language used to write Web pages) and the HTML code (known as "entities") for æ is "æ"; and that for œ is "œ". Æ (unsurprisingly) is "Æ", and so on.

You can use the characters menu in Word to insert ligatures into a Word document, assuming the font you are using has them in its character set -- not all do; however, because of the different ways that Macs, Linux machines and Windows boxes treat text, they won't appear properly on a Web page for everyone unless you use the method I outline above.

They're not used in modern printing much, unless the intention is to give an archaic feel, or a designer likes the "look". For instance, the title page of a book might show "Æsop's Fables", rather than the more mundane "Aesop's Fables".

Dunno about stretching your ligaments, but a ligature round your neck won't do you much good.

Asa, no, I didn't know about this. Thanks for telling me. I have heard, however, about some guy who windsurfed all the way from Sounion to Crete. Quite a distance!

"I have heard, however, about some guy who windsurfed all the way from Sounion to Crete. Quite a distance!"

Wow! That blows me away!;) I live about forty miles from Hood River, Oregon, which likes to consider itself the windsurfing capital of the USA.

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Originally posted by Asa Lovejoy:
Another curiosity: Once upon a time the past tense of the act of killing a person by hanging was "hanged." Nowadays, I only hear "hung." Hearing someone say that someone was hung still makes me think that the speaker is referring to the size of a man's bits and pieces.

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Do all messages on this forum end up with sexual references?

I remember being told at school that a person could be "hanged" but meat was "hung". Whenever I hear about a hanged person I think of a carcass hanging in the butcher's shop.

Back to the discussion about English and American spelling of medical terms: How do medical researchers find the correct treatment for an ailment if they don't use all possible variations in the spelling? One would hope that Medline has a very good built-in thesaurus.

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Do all messages on this forum end up with sexual references?

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We do have a fair number of dirty-minded folk, don't we?

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One would hope that Medline has a very good built-in thesaurus.

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I think they use computers extensively nowadays. They would no doubt be primed with the different spellings, and could probably find something even if the user spells it wrongly. I believe the biggest problem is the possible confusion between different trade names for medicine, and the "generic" name.

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Do all messages on this forum end up with sexual references?

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No wuckers.

Welcome, Maeve! Good to have you with us. Where in Oz are you?

I have some questions about Ozzie slang, and hope you can help out. Thanks in advance. (See separate new thread I'll start shortly.)

Maeve, I regret having offended you, and will try to be a bit more discreet regarding sexual references in the future. I tried to send this to you privately, but couldn't figure out how to do so.

A.L.

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Do all messages on this forum end up with sexual references?

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And what's wrong with sexual references? We're all adults, aren't we? And the fact that we like words doesn't preclude us liking other things which will naturally 'slip in' to conversation too. (pun intended)

Hi, folks. I'm Sarah, one of the administrators here. You won't see my name much on this forum. (I let Wordcrafter do most of the talking--hard to get a word in edgewise around him anyway! ) There is a point that I want to make clear here, and this seems the best place for it.

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We're all adults, aren't we?

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Yes, in order to register, you must be at least 18 years old.

In addition:

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I tried to send this to you privately, but couldn't figure out how to do so.

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There is a "Private Topics" options which I shall work diligently to figure out!

But, if there is something you want to bring to your administrators attention, please feel free to email us at wordcraft2@hotmail.com . One of us will do our best to address your concern as soon as possible.

Please, enjoy your time here!

>How do medical researchers find the correct treatment for an ailment if they don't use all possible variations in the spelling?

>I believe the biggest problem is the possible confusion between different trade names for medicine, and the "generic" name.

Maeve, welcome! Nice to see you aboard. Hope you will give us a chance!

As far as your question, Arnie is correct. With the various spellings of conditions, we have been able to ferret out the differences, basically between the USA vs. Canadian, UK, and Australia; however, as I said, it does pose some interesting publication questions. Likewise, as Arnie said, difficulties do arise with pharmacology, mainly because other English-speaking countries often name the drugs differently. Given that, besides the fact that drugs all have different chemical, trade and generic names and the fact that drug names can be very similar--well, no wonder there aren't more medication errors!