I read in a newspaper column that the the Australians' phrase for unspoken bias against achievement (so as not to elevate oneself above one's mates) is "the tall poppy syndrome." Shu thinks that's a Japanese phrase. Which is it?

Tall poppy syndrome.

Well, I obviously was wrong.

According to OED, tall poppy is a rather old term, but tall poppy sydrome is fairly recent:

tall poppy: a prominent or conspicuously successful person..., freq. with implication of attracting hostility from envious detractors.
(clear cite in 1902; arguable one in 1858)
tall poppy syndrome: a perceived tendency to disparage prominent or successful people. (first OED cite 1985)

Bert Peters, of the University of Tasmania, has made the case that tall poppy "is a key word which .... reveals a great deal about the real nature of egalitarianism, one of Australia's most often named cultural values."

Peters also has a slightly earlier cite, 1983, for tall poppy syndrome. See ftn. 28 at p. 14

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If the Peters link doesn't work for you, try a cut-and paste of 72.14.205.104/search?q=cache*aCm3Nl4apIJ:www.benjamins.com/jbp/series/EWW/25-1/art/0001a.pdf+%22tall+poppies+and+egalitarianism%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4&lr=lang_en (At the red *, substitute a colon followed by a D; I couldn't do this because the software rendered it as a smiley.)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: wordnerd,

Thanks Jerry for that article. As an Australian myself, this is a term I've often used and heard. As for its origin, well the article certainly suggests it was here, but I really can't say.

The sad thing I can say though is, that the syndrome is rife in this country. Oh well....

hmmm... having re-read my last post, I can't help but wonder, can a syndrome be rife? Rife suggests abundancy as in numbers, syndrome is singular, I suppose we could be suffering from abundant syndromes... eeuuww, just doesn't quite cut it though.

The Wordcraft community is rife with geographic lore, Peta, but I had never heard of Blue Mountain until I read your public profile. We appreciate your contributions.

.... hmmmm .... Would "epidemic" be too "medical" for describing the ubiquitousness of the rampant syndrome in Australia ?

This isn't just limited to Australia. I think there's a parallel to tall poppy syndrome here in the U.S. among some blacks, who belittle other blacks who have achieved success, accusing them of trying to "act white," of being "Uncle Toms" or selling out to "the Man" in some way. This is frustrating to other blacks, who want to see the younger generation obtain an education and succeed, but the anti-success attitude feeds into self-destructive behavior on the part of some, unfortunately. I've also seen the same thing among blue-collar whites, who try to discourage their kids from going to college, where, they think, their children will learn to be something they are not--become too good for the folks back home.

Wordmatic

Of course you are right, wordmatic. But have you heard it called that before?

To judge by their myths and legends, Tall Poppy Syndrome was alve and well in the ancient world. The gods would spend time cutting down tall poppies in varied ways for the sin of hubris.

Of course, it was rare until relatively recently for anyone to rise above their "station" in society, and the mythmakers encouraged the status quo by warning of the dire consequences of being too successful.

quote:

I think there's a parallel to tall poppy syndrome here in the U.S.

I haven't heard the term Tall Poppy
syndrome but it is rampant here in the US, particularly in the schools.High achievers are beaten down mercilessly. (Usually by those who are jealous or those seeking to improve their own advantage.) I agree it keeps many ethnic and social classes down. I hate using group epithets but here in the South, the so-called "red-neck" families often belittle their children who do well academically.
That is one reason I think educators need to spend more time teaching PARENTS and the COMMUNITY that is is their duty to encourage their children. Often poor or uneducated parents discourage their children in order to protect them from life's disappointments.

Ya, well, back in wisCAHNson we called it "gettin' da big head".

When people ask me why I moved to San Francisco, I answer "Because I hit an ocean."

quote:

Originally posted by Kalleh:
Of course you are right, wordmatic. But have you heard it called that before?

Just saw this. No, this discussion was the first time I had ever heard it called "Tall Poppy Syndrome." I am sure if I accused my brother-in-law of having Tall Poppy Syndrome he would give me a funny look and tell me he's of average height!

Wordmatic

quote:

Ya, well, back in wisCAHNson we called it "gettin' da big head".

Hmmm, I'm from Wisconsin, and I don't recall that phraseology. Actually, I found Wisconsin quite progressive.

quote:

Originally posted by Kalleh:
Hmmm, I'm from Wisconsin, and I don't recall that phraseology.

It's a Scandinavian thing. I've heard Garrison Keillor use it as well.

FWIW, my experience with The Tall Poppy Syndrome is about a person who is for some reason conspicuous and always gets noticed and/or blamed.
I can't count the number of times I have been singled out in a group and credited with some antic totally unrelated to me. I was told that I suffer from TPS, and that I will always stand out in a crowd for many reasons.
I guess I can make that an asset...

Sorry, messed up

Proofreader, you are asking us to forgive you for having messed up.

However, our meager investigative powers reveal nothing that would show us HOW you messed up.

So we respectfully request any description, photographs, and the like ... whatever evidence you have of how, when, and why you messed up.

It would be especially nice to see all that stuff today, seeing as how it's Kalleh's birthday and she's very much interested in ἐπιχαιρεκακία.

Thanks.