We have peevers in Germany too, apparently. I imagine we have them in all languages. This NY Times article. talks about the conservative linguists in Germany being annoyed because their equivalent of the OED (the Duden dictionary) has added 5,000 new words, many of them of English origin and related to technology:
quote:
If English didn’t lend us one or two little words every once in a while, we would probably call blogs “digitale Netztagebücher” and apps “Anwendungen für mobile Endgeräte.” Even for German speakers, those don’t exactly roll off the tongue.
The article also talks about Germany's "wonderful, untranslatable words." That's a conversation we've had before! One that they specifically mention is Zeitgenossen; they translate it as: sharing"...a responsibility toward one another as well as toward the age they live in. It is an attitude that sees languages as complementary, not competitive, and sees the world as a continuum of cultures, rather than a set of distinct borders." For our German speakers here, does that adequately describe the word?
Zeitgenosse: Zeit, meaning "time", is cognate with tide and Genosse "companion" is cognate with geneat, an obsolete English word for "retainer, vassal". Etymologically a tidegeneat is a companion of the time. I can't speak about the cultural connotations.
Germany has a Rat für deutsche Rechtschreibung (Council for German Orthography), but no official body for regulating borrowings as far as I know.
From the comments: "the fact that the verb often comes at the end of a sentence means that it [German] is often necessary to think a bit before opening one's mouth."
I also liked
quote:
Most Germans are more liberal in their linguistic views and generally agree that the idea of protecting a country’s language is as megalomaniacal as it is futile.
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
It's funny: in the 17th and 18th century Germans were borrowing a lot of French words. During the '30s and early '40s of the previous century, the folks in power tried to get rid of a bunch of words (of foreign origin) replacing them with more German ones. For once, I'd like to see an article about untranslatable words, where they just give the word and say: "Sorry, but we can't translate this."
[Minor editing for clarity and to fix a typo.]This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd,
Originally posted by Kalleh: I know, z. I thought it odd that he called Zeitgenossen untranslatable with one breath, and then with the other he translated it. Very strange.
It's not strange at all, it's completely normal. Its what happens every time someone writes about untranslatable words. This message has been edited. Last edited by: goofy,
Well, the elephant in the room here is that we'll never really know, will we? How do we really know what the word means in another language if we've never grown up with that language?
However, I've mostly come around to your point of view on this.
Originally posted by Kalleh: Well, the elephant in the room here is that we'll never really know, will we? How do we really know what the word means in another language if we've never grown up with that language?
I think it's possible to get a pretty good idea by learning the language, interviewing native speakers and examining texts.This message has been edited. Last edited by: goofy,
Well, the elephant in the room here is that we'll never really know, will we? How do we really know what the word means in another language if we've never grown up with that language?
Indeed, how do I really know what you mean by really? or any other word in English? Since the meanings of different words are something that is learned, I see no problem with learning the meaning of a word from somebody who has already learned it. I mean German or Chinese babys do not know what yuanfen or Zeigenossen mean from birth. They have to get that meaning from others, and the transference may be faulty. In fact, that's how language probably changes over time.
Also, this phenomenon leads to folks borrowing foreign words. Unfortunately, or fortunately, the meaning of the borrowed words tends to change as time goes by and the word becomes naturalized.
Just because one bilingual says that a word is untranslatable does not mean that it is, or that we agree on what translatable means.This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd,
I hear you, z, and others here. However, I just can't get over my friend who was raised and educated at the undergraduate level in Beijing, and then came to the U.S. for her PhD and has lived here ever since. She seems to have a great command of the English language - and yet - she insists there are words from her mother tongue that she just can't find the words for (paragraphs) to translate.
That's what is holding me up. I am 75% there, but not all the way. I realize my friend is just one person, so perhaps that's the fatal flaw in my worries.
Originally posted by Kalleh: I hear you, z, and others here. However, I just can't get over my friend who was raised and educated at the undergraduate level in Beijing, and then came to the U.S. for her PhD and has lived here ever since. She seems to have a great command of the English language - and yet - she insists there are words from her mother tongue that she just can't find the words for (paragraphs) to translate.
If there really are Chinese words that can't be translated into English, it's a big deal. Your friend should talk to an expert in Sinitic languages. She could be front page news.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: goofy, 
