I was visiting my dad in Beloit, Wisconsin, and there was a big article about a November 11th, 1911, tornado in Beloit. Unfortunately I can't find a link to the whole article (can anyone?), but it's a fun read because of how differently they wrote back then. For example, they apparently described in detail all the injuries; The Beloit Daily News says, "The nine victims died horrible painful deaths. Broken and buried, bleeding, bent and impaled, their deaths were graphically described in the newspapers of the day." Here is an example, "The wind ripped all the clothes from Alice's body, save for a corset; its stays were 'driven deep into her body'." Then the Daily News goes on to say, "Her younger sister, Reggie, was propelled headfirst into the deep mud of a hog wallow." You wouldn't find writing like that in the NY Times!

Interestingly, they wrote about a "tramp" in someone's barn as he "...hung on for dear life as the entire barn was destroyed and blown around and over him." I was thinking that we really don't use that word "tramp" anymore, do we? Today it would probably be "homeless.'

We use "tramp" here in the UK to mean something like "hobo" rather than simply "homeless".

I was thinking that we really don't use that word "tramp" anymore, do we? Today it would probably be "homeless.'

It really depends. I might say hobo or tramp jocularly or for shock effect. Both the words are still pretty much in the language, more so than a word like sanguine or fiefdom. Tramp is also overloaded in that it can refer to women with a meaning different from homeless.

While I agree that "tramp" and "hobo" have a different connotation than "homeless," I never hear them used. What I think they'd call a "tramp" in the 1920-30s, I think we (in the Chicago area) call "homeless."

Frkom Wikipedia:

A hobo is a migratory worker or homeless vagabond, often penniless.

Hobo may also refer to:

Hobo, a soft handbag that lacks a rigid frame so that it curves upward at each end where the straps are attached
The Hobo, a 1917 film starring Oliver Hardy
Hobo (book), a non-fiction, autobiographical novel written by Eddy Joe Cotton
Hobo (Billy Bob Thornton album), 2005
Hobo (Charlie Winston album), 2009
Hobo (German magazine), a 1970's German magazine which covered West Berlin
Hobo (magazine), a magazine published since 2003
Hobo (software), a web application framework that builds on the functionality in Ruby on Rails
Hobo (typeface), a sans serif typeface
Hobo Day, homecoming for South Dakota State University
Hobo spider
The Hobos, a rock band from Latvia
USS Hobo II (SP-783), a United States Navy patrol boat in commission from 1917 to 1919

They seem to have left out "hobo jungle", which is where hobos and tramps congregate at night.

I've seen stories about hobos who differentiate tthemselves from, and even look down on, tramps. Hobos favored train travel while tramps usually were on foot. Hobos often assumed that role voluntarily, being averse for many reasons to living normal straight lives in cities. They preferred the open road.

Tramps were often migrant workers who would do odd jobs for sustenance or shelter, but preferred to walk ("tramp") instead of ride.

Neither, I believe, can be equated with "homeless" since they often did have places they could return to when necessary, until the itch to travel hit again. Today's "homeless" usually are that due to economic circumstances out of their control and are forced to reside on the streets.

Well, I will correct myself. I do shop sometimes for Hobo bags (purses). And, I have been tramping through the woods. However, that's about as far as it goes, for me, with those two words in today's conversations.

In Chicago there are a lot of people on the street who don't have places to live, wear dirty and old clothing, and certainly don't have money with which to live. They often ask for money on the streets. It's sad, but true. Are they homeless? Beggars? Hobos? Tramps? In Chicago we might call them the first two, but never the last two.

In Chicago there are a lot of people on the street who don't have places to live, wear dirty and old clothing, and certainly don't have money with which to live. They often ask for money on the streets. It's sad, but true. Are they homeless? Beggars? Hobos? Tramps? In Chicago we might call them the first two, but never the last two.

As with many words, the meaning differ with context. I work in a build right next to the San Francisco Federal Reserve building. There are a lot of Occupy SF folks camped out in front of the buildings along Market Street. And many more tents and folks in the park around the corner (in front of the Ferry Building). On more than one occasion I have heard (from passers-by and in the news) these people referred to as hippies. To me they're occupiers (and some no doubt are neo-hippies, as I would call them). With their laptops and tents from REI none of them seem like the many homeless people who "occupy" further up Market Street.

To me somebody who called these homeless, tramps or hobos, non-jocularly would sound terribly old fashioned. Like somebody who was born in the '20s or '30s of the previous century.

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Like somebody who was born in the '20s or '30s of the previous century.

Police at one occupy site arrested some protestors, describing them as "anarchists." Sounds more like the 1880s.

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To me somebody who called these homeless, tramps or hobos, non-jocularly would sound terribly old fashioned.

It's all a matter of context. I don't agree with your "old fashioned", at least for "homeless" (the word I had promoted) because it is used daily here, at least in Chicago. Maybe we're too old fashioned, though, in our vernacular?

But you are right that in the context you describe, the correct descriptor wouldn't be "homeless" either. I think "occupiers" is a good one, or something similar. "Hippies" to me sound old fashioned, but we are talking SF so maybe that word is still used there. It is not used where we live, except of course to talk about the 60s and 70s.

It's all a matter of context. I don't agree with your "old fashioned", at least for "homeless" (the word I had promoted) because it is used daily here, at least in Chicago.

Sorry, I was using homeless as the modern word, and saying that if somebody called them hobos or tramps it would sound old-fashioned to me. I also see I have a subject verb concord problem "somebody sound [sic]" Should be sounds. Oh, well.

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Originally posted by Proofreader:


Police at one occupy site arrested some protestors, describing them as "anarchists." Sounds more like the 1880s.

My take is that they'e anything but anarchists; more like people who believe in government ..."of, by, and for the people," not of, by, and for the oligarchy," but that's just my non-Hoover Institution or Heritage Foundation take on it.

Then there's this use of "tramp" from the sixties:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOSZwEwl_1Q

I've always liked the word oligarchy. You can see from the very beginning here I've posted about it.