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This has been covered, at least in part, in other threads but how about we take a fresh look at our favorite poetry. With the "Big Read" competition still in progress in England, I would like to invite Wordcrafters on both sides of the Atlantic to submit their three most favorite poems along with a note or two of support for their selections. I'll kick things off. 1. The King's Breakfast by A. A. Milne. I did a search for "favorite poems" on this site and found that Kalleh already had talked about this one a while back. If I had seen it at that time, I've since forgotten reading it but this piece was one of the three I had decided to name as a favorite. Why? My grandson (age almost 4) loves it! The meter is so precise that it doesn't matter that he doesn't understand all the words. When I recite it, I do different voices for all the characters, act it out, etc etc. My hope is that he'll be able to recite it himself in another 6 months or so. What a hoot that will be! 2. Casey at the Bat. OK, this one is a bit of a chestnut but it gave me chills when I was a kid that I can still re-feel when I read this piece today. I would be very interested in hearing how many U.K.'ers here are familiar with this poem. Even with zero knowledge of baseball, it's impossible not to get wrapped up in the drama of the scene portrayed. And "Mudville"! What a great name for a team that is obviously at a level far below the major leagues. I love it! Major unanswered question, though: If Casey was such a fantastic hitter and first base was open, why didn't the pitcher intentionally walk him and pitch to the next guy?? 3. I'll Get You, and Your Little Savings Account, Too!! (Note: When saying this title aloud, it is imperative that you adopt the voice of the Wicked Witch of the West from "The Wizard of Oz.") Aside from maybe TrossL, I'd faint 15 times over if anyone here has heard this one although, I suppose, stranger things have happened. (I was off on my "Flatland" prediction...) You need some background first. I enjoy improvisational comedy and over the years have directed and performed in seven different improv groups literally on four different continents (which, as you may guess, was largely during my time in the Air Force) and have done solo improv work on-stage for the past ten years or so. One improv exercise I enjoy performing is called "Poet's Corner" in which I take topics from the audience, leave for about 30 or 45 minutes, and then come back with poems or songs based on those audience suggestions. When it works, it's great and, frankly, when it doesn't work, it's still pretty enjoyable. People like to see me sweat so even a failure is, in its own way, a success. On one show I was given the topic "ATMs" (automatic teller machines - maybe they're called something different outside the states, I don't know) and came up with the following: Dorothy was swept up in a gale, A stormy Kansas twister. It carried her far away from her aunt. For a long while, truly, she missed her. But more than her aunt, it was money she loved, Though her avarice we cannot condemn. That's why she cried out when the winds blew so hard: "ATM! ...ATM!! ...ATM!!! OK, am I saying that this little bit of doggerel equates in any way to Milne's work? No, not at all. But I include it on my list of three favorites since it represents the writing of poetry which, to me, is far more enjoyable than the reading of it. In other words, I get more pleasure producing even a fairly mediocre piece than I do in reading the best of the classics. (Major exception - Dorothy Parker, but that's another thread.) So how about it? What are your Top Three All-Time Favorite Poems? | ||
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quote: Okay, I'll be the first to bite. Can you give a link? Or is this some snopes-esque gag? There is far too much investment related literature online to find this with Google, unless I want to spend eternity minus one looking. I'd like to add, thanks for the great topic. I've now spent two hours trying to find my favorite Stevie Smith and D.H. Lawrence poems. It would appear I'm the only person whose favorites they are. Am I going to have to buy more books? Dang! | |||
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I'm going to have to spend some time thinking but off the top of my head I'm going with Fire and Ice - Robert Frost Elegy Written In A Country Churchyard - Thomas Gray and of course Jabberwocky - Lewis Carroll This will of course almost certainly change when I think about it. Fire And Ice is because it is just about the most succinct and perfect summing up of humanity that I have ever read. Elegy etc. is because I heard Robert Powell read it set to the music of Rick Wakeman and it was the best poetry reading I have ever heard. Jabberwocky is because... er... do I really need to explain this ? Glaubt es mir - das Geheimnis, um die größte Fruchtbarkeit und den größten Genuß vom Dasein einzuernten, heisst: gefährlich leben. - Friedrich Nietzsche Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. | |||
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Come on people! This is a good topic. Surely there are more than three of us here who will admit to reading poems ! Glaubt es mir - das Geheimnis, um die größte Fruchtbarkeit und den größten Genuß vom Dasein einzuernten, heisst: gefährlich leben. - Friedrich Nietzsche Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. | |||
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quote: Sorry, WB, you misunderstand. The masterpeace (sic) in question won't respond to any googling efforts since it is unpublished. I wrote it myself and have recited it in public maybe a hundred times over the past eight or ten years but that's about it. I only included it as a ringer of sorts, to represent the concept of writing poetry as opposed to just reading the works of others. I started the thread, set the rules (such as they were) and then broke them myself but no snopes-osity was intended. | |||
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For several months I received Wordcrafter's Word of the Day routinely. Then one day it was seven words. I quickly identified the source of that particular group of somewhat obscure words ==> My favorite poem ... The Raven. Those seven words are in the following list. Knowing their meaning is a prerequisite to understanding the poem. censer craven decorum mien nepenthe obeisance plutonian respite surcease tempest (( On a TV quiz show I saw the Quizmaster ask a teenage girl, "What is a tempest?" She said, with confidence, "A tempest is ... like .... a Buddhist Monk?" )) Tempter I love to recite The Raven before any live audience I can capture. I have even used my poetic license to change the penultimate stanza. After the narrator has told the fowl in six different ways to LEAVE, .... "And then I heard that damned bird say, "No way, José! I'm here to stay!" I trust that Poe would approve. Another favorite of mine is The Bells. | |||
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quote: This is why I've had such trouble. Everytime I think of three poems, I remember five authors I haven't thought of. Sorry. Of which I haven't thought.  My intitial response would've been this: Mother to Son by Langston Hughes The Frog Prince by Stevie Smith (I looked and looked for it online... and was jolted awake by the realization 'I have a book with that poem in in it.") Check your bookshelf, WB! I refuse to pick number Three. I can't. There's Byron-I like 'Swimming the Hellespont' and 'Darkeness'. Kipling: "Gunga Din" "Tommy" Alice Walker? I can go on and on. I cant pick three. | |||
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There is no way I could select three, particularly with all the humorous poetry I love. But in a non-humor vein, there are three brief exquisite gems to which my mind is constantly drawn: Kubla Khan by Coleridge (which adds to Asa's count), Daffodils by Wordsworth, and most of all, Ozymandias of Egypt by Shelley. | |||
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quote: *My ex later remarried and re-divorced and then declared she had pretty much given up on men altogether which prompted the following: Judy Byron Strolin Wright Sleeps alone in bed at night. Never naughty, does what's right For Judy Byron Strolin Wright. A classic? Not by any means, but one more bit of weight to my argument that writing poetry is more enjoyable than reading it. | |||
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quote: And don't forget EAR's "Richard Cory." Tinman | |||
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quote: I've mentioned elsewhere that I am working on a book dealing with poetry, the fact that it isn't taught is schools as much as it once was, and my personal solution to this situation. I'm pleased to announce that the final rough draft was spit out (perhaps not a favorable choice of words, there) by the printer yesterday and will be sent out this week to a few literate/literary (your choice) friends for proofing before being sent to my prospective literary agent. I think it's good enough to get published but then again I sunk my teeth right into that "Mr. Ed was a zebra" hooey so I certainly could be wrong with this damn book as well. I bring this up here, Hic, for two reasons: 1.) You are one of several Wordcrafters who have impressed me as having an above average intellect, and 2.) You say you like "Kubla Khan." "Daffodils," yes, excellent. Ditto "Ozymandias." But "Kubla Khan"?? May I ask, in God's name, why?? I refer to Coleridge's masterpiece in my writing in a less than flattering way while being fully aware of the fact that most literary experts praise it to the skies. Wait, did I say "most"? Make that "ALL." And yet, I simply don't understand the attraction. As I mention in my book (and a brief sidenote here - It makes me almost giddy to say the words "my book"! Woo-Hoo!!) I've always suspected that it is the preface that puts it over, the story behind just how the poem was written more than the actual poem itself. (Then again, there are some "experts" who suspect the whole "person on business from Porlock" story ranks right down there with a striped talking horse, but that's another matter.) If you can enlighten me regarding the wonders of this particular piece, I'll be more than happy to tone down my negativity before (I should be so lucky) I go to press. Oh, and one more thing. Note to B.H.: I had never even heard of "Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard" until you first mentioned in a few months ago. It is truly a First Class read!! Thank you very much for steering me in its direction. | |||
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quote: Sounds like a good idea for a new competition. | |||
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All this just goes to show that poetry is more personal than prose. For example I absolutely hate bloody Daffodils. I find it to be the written down equivalent of a chocolate box illustration or maybe a twee Christmas card with robins and holly. Of course as it was voted number one in a Nations favourite poems poll I could be wrong (but as I'm in a CJ sort of mood I have to say that the liklihood of my being wrong is vanishingly slight ! ) On the plus side at least no-one has suggested the arch-fiend Betjeman whose middle class twaddle makes me nauseous. Glaubt es mir - das Geheimnis, um die größte Fruchtbarkeit und den größten Genuß vom Dasein einzuernten, heisst: gefährlich leben. - Friedrich Nietzsche Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. | |||
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I thought I liked Kubla Khan, but spurred on by CJ's comment I went hunting on the internet and having read several analyses of the poem I've come to the conclusion that I don't actually like it very much after all. This is not because the reviews of it are bad but because for the most part they are even more impenetrable and incomprehensible than the poem. Try this one as a representative example. For those who lack the stamina to read it or find that half way through they are losing the will to live here are two short - though typical - extracts. quote: quote: Glaubt es mir - das Geheimnis, um die größte Fruchtbarkeit und den größten Genuß vom Dasein einzuernten, heisst: gefährlich leben. - Friedrich Nietzsche Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. [This message was edited by BobHale on Sat Nov 15th, 2003 at 16:12.] [This message was edited by BobHale on Sat Nov 15th, 2003 at 16:18.] | |||
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quote: I'm surprised that you didn't know it but gratified that you enjoyed it. Glaubt es mir - das Geheimnis, um die größte Fruchtbarkeit und den größten Genuß vom Dasein einzuernten, heisst: gefährlich leben. - Friedrich Nietzsche Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. | |||
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Ref "Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard," I understand that this poem is to be made into a TV sitcom starring Alan Young. A line from the theme song sets the tone: "A corpse is a corpse, of course, of course..." (I got this from Snopes so it has to be true!) | |||
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I'm housesitting so I have some catching up to do. CJ said: "I wrote it myself and have recited it in public maybe a hundred times over the past eight or ten years but that's about it. I only included it as a ringer of sorts, to represent the concept of writing poetry as opposed to just reading the works of others." If it was the ATM thing, it was great. Even if it isn't? That was pretty great. Jerry Thomas said: ... is all that we see or seem ... Damn! I didn't think about Poe! (Obligatory Simpsons reference about "The Raven": "Nothing? You know what would have been more scary than 'nothing' ? ANYTHING! " CJ said: "I'd say your original wording was fine but, if you had to correct it, I would have gone with "of whom I haven't thought, though that's just me." You're right. Damn again. I was in PoetryBrain, cut me a bit of slack. CJ said: "(With Kipling, though, I like "If" better.)" I like the ideas in it, but the 'then you'll be a man my son' ending ruins it for me. It's good advice and doesn't have to be gender specific. (Yes, it was a different time: yes, I'm a hypocrite b/c I will ignore racist and Anglocentric stuff in his poems--though they dont make my faves.) I won't quote on the next, because there is lots of discussion. Ozymandius I can quote from memory. It's the only poem by Shelley I like. It is succint and clever. Kuhbla Khan? Yeah, it's junkie crap. Thank you all, I thought I was the only person that reads that felt that way ! ------- I am familiar with the works of Pablo Neruda!--Bart Simpson --------- [This message was edited by WinterBranch on Mon Nov 17th, 2003 at 18:30.] | |||
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Hi there CJ... What are my three favorite poems?? Can't do it... haven't read enough to form an opinion. Love ee cummings and Viggo Mortensen though. | |||
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quote: And then you'll be a person my child of intentionally unspecified sex. Just doesn't seem the same somehow, does it? Why should I let the toad work Squat on my life ? Can't I use my wit as a pitchfork And drive the brute off ? Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. | |||
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quote: Is this supposed to provoke me into another rant about the nature of rhymes? This is, at best, a "sight rhyme," something I adore just slightly less than "Kubla Khan." Plus, maybe it's me but does this not exactly make sense? Sounds like Coleridge after he got ahold of some substandard opium. I agree, though, with your take on the "If" gender question. | |||
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quote: This is the opening verse of the poem "Toads" by Philip Larkin who is generally considered (by people outside the Strolin household) to be one of the finest English poets of the twentieth century. He is one of the poets we studied for our English Literature O-Level many years ago a school. John Betjeman on the other hand always rhymes perfectly but produces what - in my opinion- is mere doggerel and not true poetry at all. He too is a highly respected pillar of the literary establishment. (In case you are unfamiliar with this former Poet Laureate here's an example. Were you a prefect and head of your dormit'ry? Were you a hockey girl, tennis or gym? Who was your favourite? Who had a crush on you? Which were the baths where they taught you to swim? ) I know of course that your opinion is that if it doesn't rhyme it isn't a poem but I'm afraid that the general weight of established opinion is against you. Each to his own. Why should I let the toad work Squat on my life ? Can't I use my wit as a pitchfork And drive the brute off ? Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. [This message was edited by BobHale on Wed Nov 19th, 2003 at 15:12.] | |||
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When I first saw this thread, CJ had posted about a Milne poem. I adore Milne, so I posted some of my Milne favorites. However, soon this thread got really serious and intellectual. I felt that my post was out of place, and so I deleted it. So, here are some of my favorite adult poems (some have been mentioned): Robert Burns "To a Mouse" No Burns? I love him, though I realize the dialect is sometimes hard. I love the flow of his poems, even when I don't know what his words mean. Edgar Allan Poe "The Bells" (I agree with Jerry) Thomas Gray "Elegy Written in a Country Courtyard" Totally agree with you, Bob. Henry Wadsworth Longfellow "The Village Blacksmith" Very common, but I love the meter and the descriptive words. Percy Bysshe Shelley "To a Skylark" Now, WinterBranch only likes "Oxymandias" by Shelley, which I have never much liked. I love "To a Skylark" because of its descriptiveness, much like "The Village Blacksmith." | |||
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CJ, thank you for the most gracious compliment. As to Kubla Kahn, I doubt you'll ever share my enthusiasm, for it's more emotional than intellectual. (As someone or other once said, "You can't argue a person out of something that he wasn't argued into in the first place.") De gustibus, I suppose. But perhaps you'd enjoy it a bit more if you thought of it in terms of sexual imagery?.  | |||
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Kalleh notes Longfellow's "The Village Blacksmith," which begins: quote: In my youth I attended what was then an all-male college, and with manly intent we used to make road trips to the various women's schools. Among those schools was Smith College, whose lovely and affectionate students were known as "Smithies". As we noted fondly, quote: | |||
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quote: Of course, but couldn't you pretty much say that about any writing? The following is a partial (very!) list of literature which can be enhanced by thinking of it in terms of sexual imagery: The backs of cereal boxes Labels on aspirin bottles Misspelt tattoos "Apple's for sale" signs Any post on this thread Any post on any thread "Toads" by Phillip Larkin Wordcrafters are invited to add to this list, if they like, or not, if they don't, depending. In the wise words of an irregularly wise man, "Each to his own." | |||
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quote: This was a typo but rather than going back now to fix it and risk having one of those damn "This message was edited by..." notes attached to it (which just bug me for no particular reason) I'll keep it as is and claim it as a new coinage: Argree, verb, to come to an agreement after an argument. Notify the folks at the OED. | |||
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I can see that CJ will never get over his penchant for "perfect rhymes."  | |||
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quote: Just something for you to consider. All those "imperfect rhymes" that you object to aren't actually meant to be any kind of rhymes at all. They are just Larkin having a bit of personal fun with what is essentially a piece of blank verse by including things that look a bit as if he meant them to be rhymes. He didn't. ------------------------------------------------ Now here's an interesting thing. I just looked up Philip Larkin in my Chambers Biographical Dictionary intending to check the date that Toads was written and I found the following quote: CJ, it seems that you have more in common with Mr. Larkin than you thought. Why should I let the toad work Squat on my life ? Can't I use my wit as a pitchfork And drive the brute off ? Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. | |||
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quote: Hmmm... Upon further review, I may have come to the decision that I don't dislike Phillip Larkin quite so much. OK then, IF those near-rhymes (and it makes my teeth itch to even type that word) are just Mr. Larkin having a bit of fun, well, yes, I suppose I can see it. I can even appreciate it. I can almost even like it. Anything out of the ordinary rates a point for that even if no other points are garnered elsewhere. And, as I said, the substance of "Toads" rates very high in my book. I probably should add it to the list of poems that I need to eventually rewrite for the benefit of all right-thinking people of the world. B.H., any chance of inviting Mr. Larkin to the Wordcraft board so that we may discuss this matter further? He shows promise and I would be more than happy to assist him in his literary career. | |||
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quote: Sadly Philip Larkin passed away in 1985 so his visiting the board might prove slightly problematical. Why should I let the toad work Squat on my life ? Can't I use my wit as a pitchfork And drive the brute off ? Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. | |||
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Well, if you're going to let a little thing like death slow you down... What ever happened to that indomitable British spirit? | |||
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It will come as no surprise to readers of this board, I know, that I actually like John Betjemen's work. Doggerel (poor or trivial verse - OED) it is not. Simple and easy to understand it might be but it is not trivia. Betjemen held very strong and worthy views, many of which he chose to express through his poetry. It certainly speaks to me when he describes places and occasions I remember. I have had the misfortune to visit Slough, for example, and have never read a better description of the place than Betjemen's http://www-cdr.stanford.edu/intuition/Slough.html I disagree with the comment in the header to the poem - Slough is still a pretty foul place. Richard English | |||
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quote: No, it didn't come as a surprise.  Primarily what I dislike about Betjeman isn't the dah-di-dah-di daggeral rhythms - though they do indeed grate - it's the thing which is probably his major appeal to you :- his jolly hockey sticks, roast beef and gravy, "mommy can I have a pony" middle-classedness. Betjeman's England is an England where we still have an Empire, the sun never sets and the vicar comes round on Sunday after service for cucumber sandwiches. Not only does this England not exist now, it never existed in the first place except in the minds of the Betjemans of this world (hey - a new eponym). Simply put Betjeman has absolutely nothing to say to the vast majority of people and even those to (and for) whom he speaks hear only over-sentimentality and twee nostalgia. Why should I let the toad work Squat on my life ? Can't I use my wit as a pitchfork And drive the brute off ? Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. | |||
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That is undoubtedly true of some of his work; it is certainly not true of it all. "Inexpensive progress" for example, speaks of some lost values, that is true, but they are values that did exist in England, a real England, not some falsely imagined bucolic past. http://www.johnbetjeman.com/progress.htm And incidentally, I did not come from the upper-middle class you describe. I was born during the war of parents who worked (my father for Pickfords) I went to a state school and the benefits I now enjoy I worked hard for. That I believe in the sorts of "old-fashioned values" that Betjeman sometimes speaks of is a matter of conscious choice, not of accident of birth. Richard English | |||
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I didn't mean to sound insulting (well I did to Mr Betjeman but certainly not to you) or to suggest that I knew anything of your background but I'd have bet a pound to a thrupenny bit that you'd like Betjeman as you seem (purely from your posts) to embrace many of the things that he wrote so frequently about. That's not an insult or a compliment, simply an observation. However I stand by my opinion of Betjeman. I have read the work that you linked but while the basic sentiment is sound enough it still drips with reactionary idealism for a lost golden age. Why should I let the toad work Squat on my life ? Can't I use my wit as a pitchfork And drive the brute off ? Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. | |||
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Now, now! Am I going to have to separate you two?! When B.H. first launched his assault upon John Betjeman, I googled up a few examples, including "Inexpensive Progress" and, as noted earlier, pretty much agreed with his assessment. And then R.E. comes up with "Slough" and, lo and behold, I kinda like it! It's no "Elegy" but it isn't meant to be. And B.H., "Jolly hockey sticks"?? Never heard that one but love it anyway and will attempt to worm it into future conversations whenever possible. That and "twee." I'll report later on results. Regarding the difference of opinion between R.E. and B.H. regarding the work of John Betjeman, may I suggest that our good friend Mr. H. might have had a bit more appreciation for "Slough" (rhyming with "cow" and "now") had it been written by Phillip Larkin? Maybe something along the lines of: Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough, Not fit for human beings to grow. For cows to graze, not grass enough. Swarm over, Death! Come bombs and blow to smithereens Those TV sets that spew cartoons. Tinned fruit, tinned meat, tinned milk, tinned brains, Tin ears, tin teeth. I'll leave this masterpiece for the two of you to complete. | |||
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I will confess to having a slight fondness for "Slough" (the poem , not the place) but only because the opening line is such a fine sentiment. On the other hand CJ's version is clearly (as one would expect) substantially better than the original. I had no idea that he would be able to turn his hand so well to a form he dislikes so much. Bravo CJ ! I'd like to take up the challenge and finish the poem but I feel sure I wouldn't measure up. Instead I think I'll work on some other rewrites - Gray's Elegy in the style of Spike Milligan perhaps, or Kubla Khan in the style of Pam Ayers, or Jabberwocky in the style of Sigfried Sassoon. I'll get to it just as soon as I've finished my epic reworking of Macbeth in the style of Edward Lear. Why should I let the toad work Squat on my life ? Can't I use my wit as a pitchfork And drive the brute off ? Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. | |||
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Rather off topic, but it is perhaps worth mentioning that the brilliant BBC TV series The Office is set in Slough. | |||
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Shufitz introduced me to his all-time favorite poem, and I love it, too. It hadn't been on the Web that we could find, but I did find it tonight, as "More Songs from Vagabondia", by Bliss Carman and Richard Hovey. The original poem was by Richard Hovey [1864-1900]. I especially love the fifth verse, while Shufitz likes the first verse. It is entitled Barney McGee. | |||
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