It has been in the news lately that Bush's daughters have bought him an iPod. There was a very funny article about what songs might be downloaded on the iPods of notable people. Now, to the extent that these are political (they are David Martin's of the Tribune), just remember that each side has been picked upon!

President Bush
"Magical Mystery Tour" ~ Beatles
"My Way" ~ Frank Sinatra
"Don't Think Twice, It's All Right" ~ Bob Dylan
"Dazed and Confused" ~ Led Zeppelin

Bill Clinton
"Candy Shop" ~ 50 Cent
"Hound Dog" ~ Elvis
"Lay, Lady, Lay" ~ Bob Dylan
"Your Cheatin' Heart" ~ Hank Williams

Hillary Rodham Clinton
"Stand by Your Man" ~ Tammy Wynette
"I Will Follow Him" ~ Little Peggy March
"It's My Party" ~ Lesley Gore
"Let It Be Me" ~ Everly Brothers

John Kerry
"It's Only Make Believe" ~ Conway Twitty
"Nowhere Man" ~ Beatles
"It's Over" ~ Roy Orbison

Donald Rumsfeld
"Eve of Destruction" ~ Barry McGuire
"End of the World" ~ Skeeter Davis
"You're Da Bomb" ~ Imajin
"The End" ~ Doors

Do you have any ideas?

When I first got my present job, I conducted a series of staff meetings so that the whole team could get to know one another and so we could be stronger as a group. One of the first group building exercises we did was very much like this. I passed out square pieces of paper the size of a CD insert and asked each person to design cover art and a play list that best described themselves/

I have had nearly the entire staff turn over since then - I think I'll do it again soon! I'm going to need to give my own personal play list more thought, though!

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I have had nearly the entire staff turn over since then

Your staff works in the prone or supine positions?

Now, what the heck is an I-pod?

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Your staff works in the prone or supine positions?

No, but it's important that both sides get grilled evenly.

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Now, what the heck is an I-pod?

Ummm, I assume this is sarcastic? They are all over the place these days.

It's a pocket-sized, ultralight device made by Apple that stores up to 5,000 songs. It's quite nifty for teens and young adults...and now George has one!

Dear George... he's probably still listening to MacArthur's Park and wondering about the cake out in the rain...

If I had one, I'd be listening to Sarah Brightman...

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Originally posted by Kalleh:

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Now, what the heck is an I-pod?

Ummm, I assume this is sarcastic? They are all over the place these days.

I'd heard the term, but had NO idea what the things were. I guess it's just one more thing to numb the brains of the young while civilisation crumbles all around them. And no, I'm NOT being sarcastic!

If I had one, Gounod's "Funeral March of A Marionette" would be on it. Laurel and Hardy's theme would be on it. Lots of Simon and Garfunkel, Mussorgsky, Borodin, and Rimsky-Korsakoff. And Sunflower's voice.

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Originally posted by KHC:
Dear George... he's probably still listening to MacArthur's Park and wondering about the cake out in the rain...

If I had one, I'd be listening to Sarah Brightman...

You don't want to do that. You want to go out and buy the first Emma Shapplin album, Carmine Meo - it's way better than Sarah Brightman

Beethoven's Ninth for me, but don't worry, I have lowbrow tastes, too...Al Green!

My tastes are pretty classical, too; Led Zeppelin, Cream, Frank Zappa...

Nana Mouskouri, singing in all the ... languages.

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
Beethoven's Ninth for me, but don't worry, I have lowbrow tastes, too...Al Green!

I believe you mean the Reverend Al Green, Professor Kalleh, and the best kind of Reverend too.

Hmm - I guess I'd have:
Norah Jones, Spike Jones, Paul Simon, Kathleen Battle, Josh Grobin, James Taylor, Dianna Krall, Jennifer Knapp, Monty Python, Dougie Maclean, NItty Gritty Dirt Band, Eva Cassidy, Eurythmics, Indigo Girls, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Manhattan Transfer, Toby Keith, Alison Krauss, Al Jarreau, Harry Connick Jr, Sting, Bill Withers, Pavrotti, Al Green, and the list goes on and on and on . . . I'd need more than one disc, I think.

Hey, CW, we not only both like the same movie stars (i.e. Harrison Ford, Michael Douglas, etc.)...but the Reverend Al Green, too! Neveu, glad to see you liking him as well! I have seen him in person before, and he is just so dynamic and mesmerizing. If either of you will be in Chicago May 7th, he will be at the House of Blues. I am definitely thinking of going and would love for either or both of you to join me!

BTW, I forgot about Gilbert & Sullivan...my favorite, and I frequently mouth it as I am driving, is the "Major General."

CW, you do like a variety of music!

and the list goes on and on and on . . . I'd need more than one disc, I think.
Ahhh, the bigger iPods take 5,000 songs. Would you need more room than that?

oh yes, and Aretha Franklin, Diann Schuur, good renditions of Gershwin, Cole Porter, Mozart, Saint-Seans, Wagner . . .and Yo-Yo Ma, Van Halen, Van Morrison, Tannehill Weavers, Mamas and the Papas, crazy old folk music sung by drunken mountain men, Connie Kaldor, Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, children's music, Heywood Banks . . .

Asa isn't the only one who didn't know what an Ipod was! A month or so ago, a co-worker gave me a demonstration. If I had one, I would have Oklahoma!, Simon and Garfunkel, Yo-Yo Ma, George Gershwin songs, Strauss waltzes, the soundtrack of "Remains of the Day," George Benson, Chris Isaacs, Judy Collins, Carole King. . . and Asa's voice.

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Originally posted by Kalleh:BTW, I forgot about Gilbert & Sullivan...my favorite, and I frequently mouth it as I am driving, is the "Major General."

I used to belong to an amateur operatic society which specialised in performing the works of Gilbert and Sullivan. I've done The Pirates of Penzance, Trial by Jury and The Mikado several times.

I was also Cousin Hebe in a memorable university performance of HMS Pinafore in 1992. Gilbert and Sullivan plots are extremely silly at first glance (but they conceal much incisive satire) and this one is no exception. It is really a subtle dig at the snobbery and entrenched class attitudes which were ubiquitous in England in the 19th century. The basic plot involves the Captain and the First Mate having been mixed up as babies by their childminder Buttercup (but no-one else knows that - least of all them) and the Captain's daughter falls in love with the First Mate, rebuffing the unwelcome attentions of the scurrilous Bosun. Meanwhile, Cousin Hebe is after the First Mate herself but ends up with the Admiral. After digesting all that, imagine the following cast for our production:

The Captain - an Indian postgraduate student in his mid to late 20s.

The Captain's Daughter - a Scottish student who was not that much younger than her "father", but white with a strong Scottish accent.

The First Mate - our Musical Director (white, English and bearded), who was at least in his late 30s and may even have been older. He took the part himself because no-one else could reach the high notes demanded by the score.

Buttercup, the childminder - a 19 year old student in her second year.

The Bosun - a Chinese student in his final year.

The Admiral - another postgraduate student in his mid-20s.

Cousin Hebe - me (in my early 40s).

Given this assortment of nationalities, ages and colours in our cast, you can imagine the reaction of our audience to Buttercup's "revelation" at the end ! The Captain nearly brought down the house when he ad-libbed about having "spent a long time at sea sailing around in the sun" .

If I had an iPod, I would have a very eclectic mixture of music. I love any music that has a melody and I don't mind what style it is. I would have the entire Messiah by Handel so that I can sing along with all the parts and Verdi's Requiem . I would have all of Puccini's glorious operas and and Bizet's [i]Carmen for the same reason. I would also have the "twin" operas Cavalleria Rusticana by Mascagni and I Pagliacci by Leoncavallo because I like them.

However, I would also have Classic Rock from Led Zeppelin, The Doors, Cream and all of those great groups. I'd have some Neil Young, Cliff Richard, Rolling Stones, Elvis, Bing Crosby, songs from the shows of the past 70 years or so.

I like folk music from all over the world, hymns of all sorts, instrumental, vocal ... you name it, I like at least something in that genre (even if I only like that one number).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dianthus,

Welcome to the asylum, Dianthus! Now we've got two flowers here! I see by your public profile that you'd have preferred "Sunflowers" to "Dianthus," but my sweetie already had "Sunflower," so chose another bloomin' name! Anyway, I do hope you'll put down roots here!

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Originally posted by Asa Lovejoy:
Welcome to the asylum, Dianthus! Now we've got two flowers here! I see by your public profile that you'd have preferred "Sunflowers" to "Dianthus," but my sweetie already had "Sunflower," so chose another bloomin' name!

Thanks . I don't mind changing over. I go by the name of Dianthus in some other places, so it's no big thing.

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Anyway, I do hope you'll put down roots here!

So do I. I think I'll like it here .

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Originally posted by neveu:

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
Beethoven's Ninth for me, but don't worry, I have lowbrow tastes, too...Al Green!

I believe you mean the Reverend Al Green, Professor Kalleh, and the best kind of Reverend too.

...Now if you had said Joe instead of Al, you would have been displaying a mischievous sense of humor as well. Not too many people would consider Giuseppe Verdi "lowbrow"!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: haberdasher,

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I used to belong to an amateur operatic society which specialised in performing the works of Gilbert and Sullivan. I've done The Pirates of Penzance, Trial by Jury and The Mikado several times.

I think Shu and I have seen just about all of their operettas. We still miss the D'Oyle Carte tours to Chicago. Dianthus, have you ever publicly sung the "Major General?"

Now if you had said Joe instead of Al, you would have been displaying a mischievous sense of humor as well. Not too many people would consider Giuseppe Verdi "lowbrow"! Great, Hab!

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Originally posted by Kalleh:

I think Shu and I have seen just about all of their operettas. We still miss the D'Oyle Carte tours to Chicago. Dianthus, have you ever publicly sung the "Major General?"

Only informally ! I usually sing Mezzo or Soprano roles, but I sang First Tenor for three years in one smallish choir I belonged to in the 1980s! I have a powerful voice with a three octave range and when I auditioned, the Musical Director told me that I could easily sing tenor, but he would put me in with the Altos because there were plenty of Sopranos and the Altos needed a boost. However, we had very few men (the blight of just about every amateur musical society) and after I'd been there for a few months, for "one concert" I was drafted into the First Tenors and I stayed there. I was lucky in that I stood next to a man with a very good and very strong voice who was also an excellent sight reader, so I just followed him!

My wife has sung for Leatherhead Choral for around 50 years. She was singing in the Leith Hill Festival when Vaughan Williams was still conducting. So I've heard most of the well-known choral works many times.

Sadly this year was her last with Leatherhead as we are moving to Sussex which will be too far away for her to travel. She still intends to sing in the St John and the St Matthew (they alternate them) so we'll still get to the Dorking Halls (where they have Hog's Back T.E.A. in the bar - following my lobbying)

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Originally posted by Richard English:
My wife has sung for Leatherhead Choral for around 50 years. She was singing in the Leith Hill Festival when Vaughan Williams was still conducting. So I've heard most of the well-known choral works many times.

That would have been wonderful . I've sung Messiah twice and Verdi's Requiem once in the Albert Hall with David Willcocks conducting, but Vaughan Williams must have been something else.

I love his music. I sang in a concert version of Sir John in Love at university.

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Sadly this year was her last with Leatherhead as we are moving to Sussex which will be too far away for her to travel. She still intends to sing in the St John and the St Matthew (they alternate them)

I love those. I had a boxed set of seven vinyl 33 1/3 rpm LPs of Kathleen Ferrier recordings and one was of her singing the Alto solos from those two oratorios, but it was lost in one of my multifarious moves . Fortunately, I'd copied them onto tape, but the record set was beautifully boxed and had a booklet with all the words of all the songs and photos of her .

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so we'll still get to the Dorking Halls (where they have Hog's Back T.E.A. in the bar - following my lobbying)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dianthus,

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I've sung Messiah twice and Verdi's Requiem once in the Albert Hall with David Willcocks conducting, but Vaughan Williams must have been something else.

Sir David Willcox is the President of the Leith Hill Music Festival and he presented the awards a couple of weeks ago. As it happens he was sitting in front of me.

The present conductor is Brian Kay.

Go to http://www.lhmf.supanet.com/index.htm to find out more.

Margaret (my wife) was very fond of Kathleen Ferrier and we still have several of her records.

(Sorry to hijack this thread!)

Don't be sorry, Richard. The conversation is good.

BTW, just today there was an article in the Chicago Tribune about how colleges are having to advertise amenities in order to attract students. Duke University is giving every incoming student an iPod. Wouldn't the money be better used on scholarships for poor students. This just rankles me!

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Duke University is giving every incoming student an iPod. Wouldn't the money be better used on scholarships for poor students.

To hijack the thread again, the British Post Office has been having problems with absenteeism. They have therefore been running a scheme to reward workers who don't take time off for sickness - real or feigned. They are entered in a draw and can win prizes such as holiday (vacation) vouchers or a new car.

When they reported this on TV this morning they read out an e-mail from a viewer. It was along the lines of, "My employer runs a similar scheme. If I turn up for work every day I get paid at the end of the month."

I remember having a discussion with someone who was arguing about "performance related pay" ('mere end of year claptrap' Anag.)

I told him, "...If you really want to understand performance-related pay - try self-employment. If you don't perform - you don't eat!..."

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Originally posted by Richard English:

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I've sung Messiah twice and Verdi's Requiem once in the Albert Hall with David Willcocks conducting, but Vaughan Williams must have been something else.

Sir David Willcox is the President of the Leith Hill Music Festival and he presented the awards a couple of weeks ago. As it happens he was sitting in front of me.

He came to Winchester several years ago and did a Christmas workshop and I sang a short solo in it .

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The present conductor is Brian Kay.

Go to http://www.lhmf.supanet.com/index.htm to find out more.

I liked the King's Singers .

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Margaret (my wife) was very fond of Kathleen Ferrier and we still have several of her records.

I also like Dame Janet Baker. I've sung Elgar's Sea Pictures.

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(Sorry to hijack this thread!)

I apologise, it's all my fault for encouraging you . Sorry folks .

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They have therefore been running a scheme to reward workers who don't take time off for sickness - real or feigned.

I take issue with this sort of thing (along with really strict sickness policies), because not only does it encourage people to come in with unpleasant bugs and pass them round, but not all of us have the good fortune to be generally healthy. I also question whether it's against the Disability Discriminiation Act, because it's effectively denying people with disabilities (who need time off relating to their condition) the opportunity for these bonuses - and for no other reason than that they have a disability which means they're not always well enough to get into work. Unless, of course, only their non-disability related absence is counted, which would be fair enough.

Not sure of the detail but the news item I saw said not only had they allowed for disabilities and long term illness but also for people with child care problems and other similar issues.

I'm still not sure I'm in favour of paying people a bonus for just doing what they agreed to do without a bonus when they signed the contract.

Yes, I know what you mean .

I'm so glad to hear they were making allowances for things beyond people's control, but the cynic in me thinks most companies only do that now because it's illegal not to .

Another thing about the DDA that is widely flouted is the bit about you cannot be refused a job because of your disability. Yet what do most application forms have on them? "How many days off sick have you had in the last X years?"! Put too many (i.e. more than 10-15) and your application is discarded. The next box should be "number of days related to disability" (if applicable), with the latter total then subtracted from the first. I'd be surpised if the DRC haven't looked at that. Think I might check their website and write to them again if they haven't.

I know a lot about the DDA and it's sadly lacking in many areas, to the point of actually being discriminatory itself in some parts (although that is being looked at now, thank goodness).

*gets off soapbox*

I recently read an article about certain firms in the US that have taken a really stingent stance toward employees who are sick or who have sick children. Basically, if anyone calls in sick for any reason they are fired! It only mentioned a few firms, and they didn't publish all the details. I can't imagine that would hold up in court. Yet, it does mean that to fight it, you'd have to hire a lawyer and incur all those fees, always worrying that you might not win.

As a nurse it really infuriates me. I envision someone with a contagious disease, like the flu with a fever of 104, being expected to be at work. I hope that trend doesn't continue!

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
I recently read an article about certain firms in the US that have taken a really stingent stance toward employees who are sick or who have sick children. Basically, if anyone calls in sick for any reason they are fired!

That's not only stupid thinking, but probably violates the Family Medical Leave Act (FMLA). An employer who shows respect for employees by treating them as if they were human, paying a decent wage and providing good benefits, will likely have satisfied workers who will be loyal and hard-working. Turnover will be low and productivity high. Conversely, employers who treat their workers as human dung will have dissatisfied workers with a poor work ethic and no sense of loyalty toward their employers. Absenteeism and turnover will be high and productivity low. You get what you give. Treat people with civility and respect and they'll treat you with civility and respect. Treat them like shit, and they'll return it. I don't know why that is so hard to understand.

Tinman

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Originally posted by Cat:
Yes, I know what you mean .

I'm so glad to hear they were making allowances for things beyond people's control, but the cynic in me thinks most companies only do that now because it's illegal not to .

Definitely. You're not the only cynic here .

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Another thing about the DDA that is widely flouted is the bit about you cannot be refused a job because of your disability. Yet what do most application forms have on them? "How many days off sick have you had in the last X years?"! Put too many (i.e. more than 10-15) and your application is discarded. The next box should be "number of days related to disability" (if applicable), with the latter total then subtracted from the first.

I've long suspected this. Over a period of 10 years or so, I submitted many applications for different secretarial-type jobs with my local County Council (whose offices are based in my town). I got more interviews when I stopped putting my age or date of birth on my CV (Resume), but jobs with national or local government require BOTH to be filled in . They also have a five page Health Declaration form which not only wants to know how many days you've had off sick in the past two years, but also presents a list of FORTY (yes, I counted them) medical conditions with a checkbox beside each. This doesn't ask whether you've had any of them within, say, the last two years - it asks whether you've EVER had any of them! Since I've had at least 15 and some are still ongoing, this was a big problem. Now I've had more than two years off work following a back injury, so there's not much chance of my getting a job with them .

Employers are definitely becoming too nosey. They say you can't be discriminated against due to ill health / age etc but then you're expected to fill in forms with increasingly detailed information about very personal stuff that's really none of their business until you ARE actually an employee (and even then it's debatable). You're allowed to put your gender and ethnicity on a separate form which (supposedly) isn't given to the decision-makers, so why can't you do that with your disabilities? If it's as unimportant to their choosing you as employers who are trying to be 'right on' stress, why do you need to put them down on your main application form at all, along with your age? Except in cases where certain conditions mean you can't do a particular job, I find such practice disgusting and voyeuristic.

I don't know why that is so hard to understand.

I'm in complete agreement, Tinman. A happy workforce is a productive workforce. Is it really that difficult?

I see that the subject has been changed , but here's an interesting story called "What's on Jesus' iPod?" www.sfgate.com/columnists/marford/. (Sorry, I can't figure out how to do a hyperlink or much of anything else on this site.

My theory on sick days is that if the company allows a certain number of sick days to be taken each year, most people will take them. This seems to be more prevalent in government work such as teaching and libraries (at least in my experience). I'm the one who shows up every day come hell or high water; I am also the one who is currently unemployed, partly because I got sick (no pun intended) of my co-workers not showing up for work.

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Originally posted by Sunflower:
I see that the subject has been changed , but here's an interesting story called "What's on Jesus' iPod?" www.sfgate.com/columnists/marford/. (Sorry, I can't figure out how to do a hyperlink or much of anything else on this site.

I got:

"Item Not Found

The article or page you requested was not found. If this link was sent to you via e-mail or posted on another website, it was probably incorrectly formatted.

If the link that gave you the error appeared on one of The Gate's pages, please mail us and let us know at webmaster@sfgate.com.

You can also go to our search page at: www.sfgate.com/search."

To make a hyperlink, click on "URL" on the row of buttons at the top of the reply window, paste in the URL (the address) of the site you want to link to in the top box and something like "here" in the bottom box. Click on "OK" and you'll have your hyperlink .

What's on Jesus' iPod?

Excellent article by the way .

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My theory on sick days is that if the company allows a certain number of sick days to be taken each year, most people will take them. This seems to be more prevalent in government work such as teaching and libraries (at least in my experience). I'm the one who shows up every day come hell or high water; I am also the one who is currently unemployed, partly because I got sick (no pun intended) of my co-workers not showing up for work.

I'm unemployed too, but not for that reason .

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I got sick (no pun intended) of my co-workers not showing up for work.

Sadly it's a case of the few spoiling it for the many.

Most people are decent and honest and won't skive off work in the same way that most people don't steal things or commit other crimes. But because of the dishonest fraction (maybe less than 1% in most cases)we have to have hugely expensive police forces and criminal justice systems.

And employers have to have draconian rules which seem grossly unfair to the majority of honest workers, simply to stop that selfish monority from taking advantage.

And unfortunately the reliable, honest and concientious ones are those who, like the kitchen tap (faucet) that invariably provides clean fresh water day after day, those are the ones who get taken for granted. After all, when did you last thank the tap for its fine work?

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That's not only stupid thinking, but probably violates the Family Medical Leave Act (FMLA).

Tinman, of course you are right; I hadn't even thought of that. I looked and looked on the Internet (and in the Chicago Tribune archives) last night to see if I could find that article again. It was just in the last few weeks that I read it, but I couldn't find it. I wanted everyone to know that I really wasn't embellishing or exaggerating because it sounds as though I could have been.

Richard and Sunflower, for these firms it definitely wasn't the problem of a few spoiling for many. It was overbearing, uncaring, probably illegal, certainly stupid, and absolutely uncivil regulations made by a few businesses. One letter writer to the Tribune, after the article appeared, thanked the Tribune for naming the companies. Her company had been doing business with one of the companies, and she promptly yanked that business, based on those terrible regulations.

As Tinman says, it will only make the company worse. Besides that, I cannot imagine any company wanting people with contagious diseases coming to work. This flu season, our company sent out e-mails to everyone telling them to stay home if they are sick. We didn't want everyone getting sick at once!

Dianthus, as a Board Member of the National Orgainzation of Nurses with Disabilities, I know a little about the American Disabilities Act. I can tell you, without a doubt, that all employees have the perfect right not to answer those health related questions. Perhaps your disabilities laws are the same. I wouldn't think you'd have to answer those questions.

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Dianthus, as a Board Member of the National Orgainzation of Nurses with Disabilities, I know a little about the American Disabilities Act. I can tell you, without a doubt, that all employees have the perfect right not to answer those health related questions. Perhaps your disabilities laws are the same. I wouldn't think you'd have to answer those questions.

The problem with that is that not filling in that form would mean they would leap to conclusions that might be completely wrong and assume that I had something really serious to hide. The things I have had are bad enough, but some of the others on their list are far worse.