"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Ben Franklin, 1759

"Knowing is not enough, we must apply.
Willing is not enough, we must do."

~ Goethe

This thread seems to be Kalleh's monologue (if only we had that word for talking to oneself that we have been looking for!), but what can I say; I do love quotes! I found this today and love it:


"To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe."

--Anatole France

soliloquy (Dec. 5, 2002)

I know, I know! That's not the word you want. But it fits. Or do you prefer prattle, prate or babble?

Tinman

[This message was edited by tinman on Wed Jun 4th, 2003 at 20:05.]

Oh, thanks for trying, Tinman! To me, "soliloquy" is a word used in drama. However, in looking it up on dictionary.com, one definition is "talking to oneself". So, perhaps it will have to do. I do tend to "prattle" a bit though!

Oh, thanks for trying, Tinman. I consider "soliloquy" to be a word used in drama. Yet, dictionary.com has one definition as "speaking to oneself", so it will have to do. I do tend to prattle a bit though!

A Cockney neologism is to rabbit, which basically means to chatter incessantly.

Although this site only gives it as to talk.

Here's something very fitting for a word discussion site: "A word is not a crystal, transparent and unchanged, it is the skin of a living thought and may vary greatly in color and content according to the circumstances and the time in which it is used." Oliver Wendell Holmes

Bear, a looooong time ago we had a thread on cockney rhyming that you might find interesting. I find it very funny--and loved your site!

Asa, what a wonderful quote! That is so appropriate to many of our discussions here about how the meaning of words change.

While many of you probably don't know or don't care, Sammy Sosa of the Chicago Cubs was caught, red-handed, with a corked baseball bat. The bat broke, and cork went flying all over; he could hardly deny it! Anyway, that prompted a nice column in our Chicago Tribune about the word "cork". It comes from the Latin word "quercus", meaning oak (it comes from cork oak tree) and filtered through Dutch ("kurk"), Low German ("korck"), and Spanish ("alcorque"), before becoming "cork" in Middle English. They said there are not many famous quotes about cork (makes sense!), though they included a funny one from none other than W.C. Fields:

"Some weasel took the cork out of my lunch."

The cockney rhyming slang site mentioned above is very good. It is not, though, always accurate.

Although "Buckshee" does indeed mean free I am quite certain it is not rhyming slang. As the site correctly explains, it is the second of a pair of words that is rhymed and the first that is used as the expression.

Buckshee does not follow the rule and this is becuse its origin is from the arabic word "backsheesh" - meaning a a tip or gift of money.

At least, that's how it was explained to me.

I am also doubful about Canoes = shoes;
Cloud seven = heaven; Greens (greengages) = greens (money); Mother's ruin = gin: Sweeney Todd = Flying Squad (Sweeney Todd was, of course, a notorious character in Victorian London - the demon barber of Fleet Street and his name obviously precedes The Sweeney)

Richard English

"A candle is not dimmed by lighting another candle."

I found this on the bottom of an email. Alas, I have no one to contribute it to.

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Alas, I have no one to contribute it to.

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Contrary-wise, Morgan, you already contributed it to the Universe.

When we contribute it to our friends we promise to attribute it to You.

You're welcome

~~~~ jerry

quote:

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The cockney rhyming slang site mentioned above is very good. It is not, though, always accurate

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I must be wrong, but I thought that cockney rhyming was somewhat like Pig Latin; that is, there is no emphasis on "right or wrong".

With any form of slang it is possible to make such a claim since the language of slang is "unofficial". However, Cockney rhyming slang has certain traditions, if not rules, and these are accurately explained on the site.

It is some of the examples I take issue with.

So, the rhyming slang for "curry" is "ruby" - from Ruby Murray. It is not say, "murray" from Murray Walker (the racing commentator and Rudge owner).

It is always the last word of the phrase that is rhymed but the first that is used.

Richard English

"Nude will always be in style, because its always bareable"

a friend said that one

"It is fun to be in the same decade with you."

-Franklin D. Roosevelt, in a letter to Winston Churchill

Just for the record, Winston Churchill is one of my heroes.

Sir Winston is one of my heroes, too.

As Adlai Stevenson said, in his eulogy, "He mobilized the English language."

CORRECTION ==> Churchill Quotes
Q.President Kennedy, in presenting Churchill with honorary American citizenship, said, "He mobilized the English language and sent it into battle." I have heard this line was said earlier. If so, by whom?

A.Edward R. Murrow, in his Columbia LP recording entitled "I Can Hear It Now" (and possibly elsewhere) actually coined that phrase. JFK borrowed it without attribution, but then again, Churchill often did the same with lines that appealed to him. The full quote occurs in Murrow's introduction to his Churchill war speech excerpts, as Churchill takes office in 1940: "Now the hour had come for him to mobilize the English language, and send it into battle, a spearhead of hope for Britain and the world. We have joined together some of that Churchillian prose. It sustained. It lifted the hearts of an island of people when they stood alone."

[This message was edited by jerry thomas on Wed Jun 11th, 2003 at 19:40.]

"Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what the hell happened."
-Cora Harvey Armstrong-


"The hardest years in life are those between ten and seventy."
-Helen Hayes (at 73)-


"I refuse to think of them as chin hairs. I think of them as stray eyebrows."
-Janette Barber-

The following was posted on Web site publicizing grants. The Brits probably need to know that Lou Brock was a famous baseball player, who our Chicago Cubs traded away with great regret:

"Show me a guy who's afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time."

Obviously, this comment applies to women, as well. It's just that we don't have many women in baseball here.

Every time I fly and am forced to remove my shoes, I'm grateful
Richard Reid is not known as the Underwear Bomber.

— Douglas Manuel, aerospace executive regards airport security.
Reported in USA Today, 13 March 200

"Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely." -- Edward Tufte

Your source has it slightly wrong, Kalleh, but I believe tinman had it correct at the end of his recent post.

Bartleby say it's "Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely," as stated by Lord Acton. Other sources tell me that Lord Acton's name was John Emerich Dalberg, and he wrote this maxim in an 1887 letter to Bishop Mandell Creighhton.

The sentiment wasn't new. For example:

quote:

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"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it."
-- William Pitt the Elder, in a speech to the House of Lords, Jan. 9, 1770

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Interesting difference there between Lord Acton's "corrupts absolutely" and Pitt's "tends to corrupt."

Those who create are rare; those who cannot are numerous. Therefore, the latter are stronger.
- Coco Chanel

quote:

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Your source has it slightly wrong, Kalleh

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Wordnerd, it was meant to be a take on the actual quote. Get it?

I came across this one today.

A good solution applied with vigor now is better than a perfect solution applied ten minutes later.
- Gen. George S. Patton Jr.

There was another Wilde quote, earlier. This one is my personal favorite--mostly because I'm told quite often to get my mind out of the gutter.
<VBEG>


We are all lying in the gutter,
but some of us are looking at the stars.

~ Oscar Wilde

Welcome to the Board, Winterbranch!

A slight variation on the theme:
-- The Optimist says the glass is half full.
-- The Pessimist says the glass is half empty.
-- The Engineer says the glass was poorly designed and is twice as big as it should be.

quote:

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A slight variation on the theme:
-- The Optimist says the glass is half full.
-- The Pessimist says the glass is half empty.
-- The Engineer says the glass was poorly designed and is twice as big as it should be.

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I worked with a woman who was the world's biggest pessimist, I'd tell her the optimist/pessimist lines and then say:

"Kathy says 'The glass is half full of poison, but you might as well drink it anyway, because if you don't? Someone will just shoot you.' "

And the economist says that there is a danger of deflation so we'll devalue the glass by making it half the size and everyone will be wealthy again.

Richard English

God:
The musical conductor who sets the world ablaze with love, truth and faith performed by us.

This is a quotation hung in Morgan's church. When I admired it, her pastor explained to me that the 8th and 9th graders wrote it after a year of study. Out of the mouths of babes!

"I wonder how many days and years we waste waiting for another person to be sorry first."

"I'm all for progress--It's just change that I can't stand."

I picked up a paraphrase of the Mark Twain quote at some sales conference that has greatly increased my sales numbers over the years:

"Nobody likes change but everyone enjoys experimenting."

I sell and service knives ("The World's Finest Cutlery" though we specifically do not use the internet to sell so I won't mention the name here) and have found it useful, when closing with a customer who wants the product but is hesitant to give a final OK, to say something along the lines of "Well, I'm not asking you to make a permanent change in the knives you use but wouldn't you like to experiment with these for a while?" The response is almost always positive and I imagine it would be equally so in other lines of endeavor.

(Hmmmmm. Another usage comes to mind: "Really, Dear, I'm not trying to turn you into a double-jointed sex pervert but maybe you'd just like to experiment...?" Just might work!)


And "Tuesdays with Morrie"? Excellent, excellent book! But the movie? I saw it as a fairly sappy effort geared towards those who don't or won't read the book. Produced by Oprah Windfrey and first-rate performances by Jack Lemmon (one of his last) and Hank Azaria but, sorry, no. Go read the book!

I have found very few movies better than the book. In fact, I can't think of any right now. The same goes for remakes of movies; almost all remakes are second rate.

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
I have found _very few_ movies better than the book. In fact, I can't think of any right now. The same goes for remakes of movies; _almost all_ remakes are second rate.

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As I said earlier I much prefer the LotR movies to the books because I find the Tolkein's writing ponderous and unwealdy and his sense of dramatic timing non-existant. For example Jackson's decision to end the firt film not at the end of the first book but a chapter into the second book improves the structure immensely.
Similarly by interspersing chapters from the first half of the second book with chapters from the second half, he manages to pull of the near impossible trick of producing a coherent narrative.

As for Tom Bombardil and all the the "Elvish" songs, I can only express my eternal gratitude that he decided to completely ignore them.


We could probably make a new thread for this.

Glaubt es mir - das Geheimnis, um die größte Fruchtbarkeit und den größten Genuß vom Dasein einzuernten, heisst: gefährlich leben.
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Read all about my travels around the world here.
Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
I have found _very few_ movies better than the book. In fact, I can't think of any right now.

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I can recommend several:

Try Black Orpheus, or The Bridge on the River Kwai, or Our Man in Havana (Alec Guinness and Ernie Kovacs! How could it miss!), or The Hustler, or even 2001: A Space Odyssey. Although perhaps this last was a book derived from the movie rather than the other way 'round.

Yes, the novel "2001" did come from the movie "2001" but the movie came from Clarke's short story "The Sentinel" which pales in comparison to the movie. The scope is much, much wider for one thing and, of course, no book can match excellent cinematography for visual appeal. For this same reason I would add "Yellow Submarine" to the movies-better-than-the-books list.

Another one, in my opinion, would be "Being There." Jerzy Kozinski's novel (which, admittedly, I read after seeing the movie) seemed absolutely dreary but the Peter Sellers film was an complete delight. In light of political events in California (see rant elsewhere) its ending is even more appropriate today than it was when the film was first released.

If you haven't seen this gem, hie thee to your nearest video rental place!

quote:

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Originally posted by C J Strolin:
movies-better-than-the-books list.

Another one, in my opinion, would be "Being There." Jerzy Kozinski's novel (which, admittedly, I read after seeing the movie) seemed absolutely dreary but the Peter Sellers film was an complete delight.

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In similar vein I'd add Forrest Gump. It isn't my favourite film but I found it a whole lot more satisfying than the book.

quote:

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For this same reason I would add "Yellow Submarine" to the movies-better-than-the-books list.

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Yellow Submarine was a book ?

Glaubt es mir - das Geheimnis, um die größte Fruchtbarkeit und den größten Genuß vom Dasein einzuernten, heisst: gefährlich leben.
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Read all about my travels around the world here.
Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog.

quote:

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Originally posted by BobHale:
In similar vein I'd add _Forrest Gump_. It isn't my favourite film but I found it a whole lot more satisfying than the book.
Totally agree. I was astounded when I first heard that a movie was going to be made from that (to be kind) sub-par book. Wasn't there some part of it where Forrest Gump was in a spaceship with an ape of some sort? A terrible read, an overrated movie, and I'd never recommend either.

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_Yellow Submarine_ was a book ? Depends on what you'd define as "a book." The book, such as it was, was a novelization from the screenplay. As I think has been noted elsewhere, novelizations are crap, their sole benefit being that they tend to appeal to people who otherwise might never pick up a (real) book.
[/QUOTE]


(If I were Asa, I'd be signing off this post with "Asa, the elitist prick." Kalleh, you've got me sweating about what newcomers might be thinking of me. If there are any newbies out there, relax! I'm a sweetheart. Mostly. Kinda... [deep sigh])

Though I've never read Gone with the Wind, I'd be willing to bet the movie is better than the book.

IMHO, you lose that bet, Wordnerd.

Now, of course, these examples are all personal opinions. I stand my course when I say that books are better, generally, than the movies are, just like original movies are better than the remakes, generally.

Okay, you all have some good (albeit, idiosyncratic) examples where you disagree. I am talking in general.

[This message was edited by Kalleh on Wed Oct 29th, 2003 at 20:34.]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
IMHO, you lose that bet, Wordnerd.

Now, of course, these examples are all personal opinions. I stand my course when I say that books are better, _generally_, than the movies are, just like original movies are better than the remakes, _generally_.

Okay, you all have some good (albeit, idiosyncratic) examples where you disagree. I am talking _in general_.

[This message was edited by Kalleh on Wed Oct 29th, 2003 at 20:34.]

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You are of course right. Our examples are of the exceptions not the rule. For the most part the films aren't as good as the books although that's a bit like saying that a photograph of a landscape isn't as good as a painting of it. They are really things that can't be validly compared. We can each say whether we prefer a particular film to the book but that's all it is - a personal preference.

Actually I do have a couple of theories about films vs. books.

1. Good novels rarely make good films because they are too complex to capture adequately in the two hours available to the film maker. Any good film adaptation of a good novel necessarily has to make drastic cuts in the plot to fit it all in.

2. Bad or indifferent novels can make good films because they lack the depth and subtlety of good novels. The film maker still has to juggle things around a bit but if the novel wasn't very good in the first place he has a better chance of producing a film that is perceived as better than the book.


3. Good short stories can make good films because there is the opportunity for the film maker to build on the relatively short plot. This is what happened with 2001.

Glaubt es mir - das Geheimnis, um die größte Fruchtbarkeit und den größten Genuß vom Dasein einzuernten, heisst: gefährlich leben.
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Read all about my travels around the world here.
Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog.

Great analysis, Bob. I especially agree with number 1, and that's why I don't think the movie "Gone with the Wind" is nearly as good as the book.

Now, back to the original intent of this thread. I heard someone speak today about public speaking. She was excellent and had lots of wonderful quotes. Here is one I liked from George Burns:

Sincerity is the key.
If you can fake that, you've got it made.

[This message was edited by Kalleh on Tue Nov 4th, 2003 at 21:29.]

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Originally posted by Asa Lovejoy:
Since seminar and semen share the same root, does that imply an orgy?

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Seminar, 1889, German, from Latin seminarium nursery.

Semen, 14th century, Middle English, from Latin, seed, semen; akin to Old High German sAmo seed, Latin serere to sow.

I started this post to show that the two words weren't related. But I changed my mind after I looked up the next two words.

seminal, 14th century, Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin seminalis, from semin-, semen seed.

seminary, 1542, Middle English, seedbed, nursery, from Latin seminarium, from semin-, semen seed.

So it seems seminal, seminary and seminar can all be traced back to semen. In other words, in the beginning there was semen...

Tinman

(If I were Asa, I'd be signing off this post with "Asa, the elitist prick."
----------------------------------------

I'm just now reading this, three weeks after you wrote it, CJ. I assure you, there is NOTHING elite about my most humble member. You must have me confused with someone else.:-)

As for the earlier comments about LotR the movies being more comprehensible than the Tolkien original, I agree. I also find Umberto Eco too deep for my little mind, but very much liked the movie versions of The Name of The Rose and The Last Temptation of Christ.

I haven't seen the movie version of Milan Kundera's The Unbearable Lightness of Being, but liked the book. Has anybody seen it?

I read these two quotes today in an editorial suggesting that we all make a list of things we'd like to do before we die.

~ John Maynard Keynes, Economist: "I wish I'd drunk more champagne."

~ Jackie Kennedy Onassis: "I wish I hadn't wasted so much time exercising." [I don't have to worry about that! ]

John Betjemen, when interviewed shortly before he died was asked whether he had any regrets. His answer?

"I think I'd have liked to have had more sex"

An admirable and truthful man!

Richard English

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Originally posted by Richard English: John Betjemen, shortly before he died was asked whether he had any regrets. His answer? "I think I'd have liked to have had more sex."

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To which Ms. Betjemen reacted how?

Perhaps the real answer can be found HERE