This morning my folks caught me experimenting with the leftover blueberries. Mom yelled, "Honey, you're killing me!!" I yelled back, "Well, it's a good day to dye!" . . . . . . . . .[all laugh] Dad accused me of taking delight in their misery. . . . . . .Ah! "Schadenfreude." Exactly. During the holidays, we drive each other barking mad. . . . . . .Ah! "Woofencückoo." I love my parents but it's time we started seeing other people. . . . . . .Ah! "Gutengeezerpapakapüt!"
I have a "schadenfreude" question. In today's editorial they were discussing the real definition of happiness...and relating it to having lots of money. It seems a very happy-go-lucky man won $314 million in the lottery. He has now been picked up twice for drunken driving, and he is being accused of making trouble in a nightclub and a racetrack and of attacking someone in a bar. Before the money, he had none of these sorts of problems. His wife, in fact, has said that she wished he never would have won the money. Anyway, the article said, "There's a certain amount of schadenfreude in Whittaker's plight."
Why is "schadenfreude" in italics? Should it be capitalized?
[BTW, the editors concluded that money creates happiness to a certain extent. For example, they said that the difference in happiness between a guy who earns $3,000 and $30,000 is much bigger than the difference between a guy who earns $100,000 and $100 million.]
That all depends on whether you consider it to now be a word in English (like any other loan word - garage, igloo etc) or still a foreign word that someone is borrowing to fill in for a concept that he can't otherwise express. If the former it should take English orthography and be neither itallicised nor capitalised, if the latter the convention would be that it should take German orthagraphy and be capitalised and, as an unfamiliar foreign word, should also be capitalised.
"No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson.
quote:as an unfamiliar foreign word, should also be capitalised.
Presumably you meant "italicised", not "capitalised" there, Bob?
I agree precisely. I would also say that in my opinion the word has become part of the English language and therefore should not be capitalised nor italicised.
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I think we talked about this sometime, but there are 3 pages and 120 matches for "schadenfreude" here (We may have the record, and I am sure we do for "epicaricacy!), and I am not about to go through each one. However, isn't the German word "Schadenfreude" capitalized for some reason? I thought I remembered that. For that reason, sometimes don't people capitalize it in English, too? I would agree with you, arnie, that it is now an English word, and not a loanword from German, though I really hate to admit that!
quote:as an unfamiliar foreign word, should also be capitalised.
Presumably you meant "italicised", not "capitalised" there, Bob?
I agree precisely. I would also say that in my opinion the word has become part of the English language and therefore should not be capitalised nor italicised.
Oops. Yes, itallicised.
"No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson.
quote:Originally posted by Kalleh: However, isn't the German word "Schadenfreude" capitalized for some reason?
It is if you use it in German because ALL German nouns have capital letters. However as I said if its now accepted as an English word then it takes English orthography and shouldn't be capitalised when used in English.
"No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Samuel Johnson.
It is if you use it in German because ALL German nouns have capital letters.
Oh, yes, that was it, Bob.
If the German's capitalize it, and we don't because it's now an English word, why then do we use all those accents (forgive my stupidity for not knowing what they are all called), as in "résumé"? Aren't those English words where we are using the accents (or whatever!) from the other languages? Should we not use those either? Or is that a different concept? If so, what is it?
BTW, there are 4 pages and 170 cites for the word "epicaricacy" on wordcraft. Not bad for a "non-word!"
To show that it is a different word, with a different pronunciation, from "resume".
But, I have often seen résumé spelled resumé which does differentiate but is wrong. And is the accent aigu in forté incorect because the word is forte in French but forte in Italian? And why don't we spell contract and contract differently? And while you say tomato and I say tomato, we still spell them the same. And the diæresis in coöperation and the umlaut in fahrvergnügen aren't the same, then, are they?
Yes, Richard, I see that I used a wrong example. I should have used a word like "risqué." In an English word should we use those marks (is there a generic word for umlauts, diæreses, circumflexes, tildes, etc.?) that are used in other countries? If so, doesn't it mean that the word isn't a real English word then? Wouldn't that mean that we should capitalize all nouns that are loanwords from German, such as "schadenfreude?"
I have never seen a diæresis used in "cooperation." Should there be one? Also, is there a good Web site that would teach me about those marks used over letters? I need some education on those marks!
_I have never seen a diæresis used in "cooperation."_
I have, but it was a long time ago, in an oldish book. Mind you, I'm not saying that's how we should spell it ...
Since it does differentiate between the two sounds of "O," it makes sense to use it. Now if I could just figure out how to use the alternate charcter sets on this #%&%@(*! computer...
Now if I could just figure out how to use the alternate charcter sets on this #%&%@(*! computer...
Asa, it was jheem who clued me in. It's quite easy, really. You just click "start," then "programs," then "accessories," then "system tools," and finally "character map." It isn't as complicated as it sounds. I love it!
OK, I did all that, and a character map window came up, but THEN what? I can''t transfer anything to a post! &^!@(&^$%#! It's probably my computer, since it won't let me cut and paste anything to the WC site.
If you double-click on the character(s) you want, they get placed in a little textbox below the grid of characters (with the label Characters to copy). Once there you can select the text and select copy or cut, and then go to your web browser and choose paste.
Also, whenever you select (single-click) a character, you will see some text in the very bottom of the Character Map window. The one of the right shows the keystrokes for enttering that character by hand elsewhere. For example, Â can be typed by holding down the Alt key and typing 0194 on the Number pad (with the number lock on).
By far the simplest way if you want an é is to spot that there is already one above you, in the word résumé, and click-drag over it, Ctrl-C to copy it. I always do this if it's there to be had.
The next best way (easier than remembering Alt-number codes or firing up Character Map) is to use HTML entities.
No wait, I tell a lie, the best way of all is to own a Mac, so you can just go Cmd-'-e and é appears. I'm assuming you haven't got this easy way out.
So the next best way is to use the HTML entity, which is é -- that is, e-acute is represented as eacute preceded by ampersand and followed by semicolon. That's correctly converted on this board.
There are HTML entities for all Western European accented letters, and they're all fairly obvious: ë makes ë and è makes è and ê makes ê.
quote:No wait, I tell a lie, the best way of all is to own a Mac, so you can just go Cmd-'-e and é appears. I'm assuming you haven't got this easy way out.
Correct. In Windows it's easier. Just use CTRL+ALT+e for é, CTRL+ALT+a for á, and so on.
We've mentioned HTML entities several times in the forum and I'll leave it as an exercise for the student to look up the earlier references. Suffice it to say that using HTML entities means that all visitors will see the intended characters, not just those using the same operating system as the poster.
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
You can also install different keyboards (under both Windows and macOS) which give you access to accented characters without typing more than one key. You do have to learn where the characters are. The special key combos and the HTML/XML entities work for the common characters, but not for things like the Unicode uvular fricative, uvular trill, or bilabial click: /ʁ/, /ʀ/, /ʘ/.
Thanks for all the suggestions! The cut and paste from Word business does NOT work! I think it's because I use Netscape 4.7 for e-mail and 7.1 for internet, and the two don't talk to one another. Since I don't know how to delete the old one without losing all my saved e-mails, I'll have to take it to someone who does know how, and then maybe I'll be a REAL member again!
Asa, you are a valued member here. If I read one more post where you dump on yourself, I am going to fly to Portland and yell at you! I had a devil of a time learning to use those characters, too, and finally jheem's instructions worked for me. Eventually something will work for you, I am sure.
No wait, I tell a lie, the best way of all is to own a Mac,
Aput says, "I tell a lie...." Surely I've heard that before, but is it more of a British phrase? In that situation I would instead say that "I made a mistake." To me, "to lie" means "to purposely deceive." Does it not mean that to some?
