Some of you may have heard of the new basketball sensation for the NY Knicks...Jeremy Lin. There are all sorts of fun words describing him, such as "Linsation." I was thinking of writing a few "linericks." Anyway, one reporter either tried too hard, or really is racially biased. Read this !

How big of a slur do you think "chink" is? To me it's one of the worst, like "kike" or "nigger" or "Jap." That's why I was aghast at that slur. However, others have told me they didn't think it was that bad (so that people were fired) and, after all, they've said, it was a pun.

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To me it's one of the worst, like "kike" or "nigger" or "Jap."

I don't think you can grade such things. Only the group referred to can really have a valid opinion and different people within the group would be likely to have different reactions. Some would be more sensitive than others. Also, the language changes. What was once a handy label can now be a slur or an insult.

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after all, they've said, it was a pun

I can't see that has any bearing on the matter. It is certainly not an excuse; if anything it makes it worse, as the perpetrator is going out of their way to add a gratuitous insult for the sake of (doubtful) amusement.

One of the popular cartoon shows used the same expression about twenty years ago and nobody got fired. I note that the web page in the above link also has an article on which US cities use the most toilet paper. Somehow I see a relationship between the two stories. Content and intent matter!

Good grief! I see the headline originated from the mobile website for phones/tablets-- sounds like they could use an editor..

Maybe, arnie, you can't rate racial slurs, but some aren't as bad as others, right?

Oh...heck, every single slur I've thought of does seem bad. Maybe you are right...

What do the rest of you think?

What do the rest of you think?

I think trying to be rational about an irrational subject is doomed to failure.

One of the popular cartoon shows used the same expression about twenty years ago and nobody got fired.

Yeah, and two hundred years ago we had slavery and no electricity.

Z, as I said before, context makes the difference. For example, I have read old model aircraft magazines from the 1930s that used the term, "Jap tissue," a shortening of "Japanese tissue," the Japanese Esaki company being then the producer of the best such material. Once we went to war with Japan, "Jap" became derogatory.
Also, we used to see "Russian" abbraviated as "Russ" in US newspapers. I don't think anybody took offense at that.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Geoff, February 23, 2012 07:21

I used to hate it when people called me squarehead when it's actually oblong.

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Originally posted by Geoff:
Also, we used to see "Russian" abbraviated as "Russ" in US newspapers. I don't think anybody took offense at that.

Is "Russ" a slur?

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Is "Russ" a slur?

I wouldn't consider it as such.

Speaking of "gaffes", Vice President Biden visited our state last night and his staff relesased his itinerary during his stay in "Road Island."

He was carrying a portable computer, a Road Apple.

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I think trying to be rational about an irrational subject is doomed to failure.

Perhaps. However, I do think this can be analyzed objectively and without it being "irrational." I have read some scholarly articles on the subject. However, as always, I could be wrong.

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Also, we used to see "Russian" abbraviated as "Russ" in US newspapers.

I don't remember seeing that in UK newspapers. A common slang term was, and probably still is, "Russki", though. Is that a slur?

И тчинк "Русски" ис йуст а такеоф он вчат тчеы цалл тчемселжес. Oops, wrong alphabet! Uhh, I think "Russki" is just a takeoff on what they call themselves.

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I think "Russki" is just a takeoff on what they call themselves.

A take-off, or an insult, though? It might seem innocuous to us, but those on the receiving end might feel differently.

I haven't known a lot of Russian speakers, but those whom I have known have referred to themselves as "Russki." "Pa Russki" means the Russian language.

Speaking of Russian, I found a fun site listing many Russian words that are the same, or nearly so, in English. I laughed when I saw what they call "Political Deadwood!" http://www.alphadictionary.com...rammar/alphabet.html

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Geoff, February 26, 2012 05:32

takeoff

An insult is an insult no matter the etymology. The word for Jewish person in Yiddish is the same as one of the insults for the same in English; the Polish word for Pole is also the same (and the origin) of the most common ethnic insult in English.

[Fixed formatting typo.]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd, February 27, 2012 03:32

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A common slang term was, and probably still is, "Russki", though. Is that a slur?

I'd say no. If so, my poor hubby is in trouble. We have a lot of Russians in Chicago (especially in the cab company I use to take to the airport), and my husband is always saying (when he hears them speak), "Russki?" Clearly it is never interpreted as an insult.

Though of course, and this may be what you mean by "emotional," z: Anyone can (and will) take anything the wrong way. For example, I suppose, though it would be really stupid, someone could be insulted to be called a "goy" or "shikse." (Now "schmuck" or "putz," I'll give you, but not "goy" or "shiksa.") So maybe you're right after all, z, that this discussion is doomed for failure.

Speaking of Hebrew, but totally off-subject here, Shu and I got a new dog today (finally!), and we are naming her "shaineh," though do you know how many different spellings I've found of it (like Yiddish generally!)? I've seen "sheyna" or "Shana" or "Shayna" and on and on! I've seen some "Sch's," too. I don't know how to spell it!

my husband is always saying (when he hears them speak), "Russki?" Clearly it is never interpreted as an insult.

That's because they might think he's trying to speak Russian, where russki is pretty close to the Russian pronunciation of the adjective русский (russkij). It might be different if the cab driver were a woman because russki is the masculine form of the adjective. Although, she might just think that your husband is attempted broken Russian without knowledge of grammatical gender.

I don't know how to spell it!

The question of orthography in Yiddish (using Hebrew letters, link) is complicated enough without bringing in English orthography. If we're stalking about the Yiddish word שײנע (sheyne) 'pretty, beautiful', then the way I transliterated it into Roman letters is the official YIVO way, but I'd say, make it an aesthetic choice. What's the likelihood of a literate Yiddish speaker editing a letter or article in which you name your dog? Some spellings of Yiddish words are just too established in English to try and replace them with YIVO transliterations. In fact, in the case of schmuck and putz, they're no longer even pronounced the way they were in Yiddish: שמאק (shmok) and פאץ (pots).

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Originally posted by zmježd:
שײנע (sheyne) 'pretty, beautiful'

Related to German "schön" and English "sheen".

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Originally posted by zmježd:
my husband is always saying (when he hears them speak), "Russki?" Clearly it is never interpreted as an insult.

If I remember correctly, Shufitz IS a Russki!

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pronounced the way they were in Yiddish: שמאק (shmok) and פאץ (pots).

Which makes "Potsie" on the old TV show, "Happy Days" sound a bit naughty!

If I remember correctly, Shufitz IS a Russki!

IIRC, he's an American of Russian Jewish origin. Russian here refers to the old Soviet Russian Empire. So, he could be Baltic, Polish, Byelorussian, Russian, or Ukrainian.

Speaking of slurs, we all know that the slur for a German individual is "Kraut."

Just today, having served corned beef and cabbage for St. Patrick's Day, I wondered how the word "sauerkraut" was derived. In looking it up, I found that "sauer" is German for "sour," and "kraut" is German for "cabbage." So are Germans called cabbages?

So are Germans called cabbages?

Yes, I always assumed that Kraut was short for Sauerkraut, a typical dish.

Maybe, but I think that's strange. Think of the other cultural slurs. I can't think of any that are about food.

The French call the English "roast beefs" and it's possible that origin of "frogs" - which is what the English call the French - is from "frogs' legs".

And now I think of it on some US TV shows I've heard Italians insultingly referred to as "meatballs" though this could be an idiosyncrasy of the writers.

I can't think of any that are about food.

Really? How about garlic eaters, taco benders, beaners, etc. (You can look at this list for more.)

Do "cheeseheads" count? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheesehead It's another case of co-opting the slur and owning it.

Ah, well. You are right. None of those are really bad slurs, do you think? I consider "Kraut" a pretty bad slur. Am I wrong? I'd never call anyone a "Kraut," but I've called my whole family "cheeseheads."

I know that Archie Bunker on "All in the Family" called his son-in-law "meathead." I guess that counts, too.

Then, of course, we have"Cheese-eating surrender monkeys" for the French.

Good grief, arnie, will you guys ever quit gloating over Agincourt?

Speaking of food and slurs, look at this!

I've noticed among the younger set that 'taco' is often used for Mexicans now. >sigh< it's better than wetback.

Step back a century and a half and see how our Irish ancestors were treated! http://www.victoriana.com/Iris...oliticalCartoons.htm

Which culture do you think gets slurred the most? I think most would say African Americans, but I am thinking it's the Chinese.

I imagine you'd have to ask the question in terms of a specific locality. I suspect in an area where unemployment is high and illegal laborers from south of the border harvest the crops, it would be Mexicans.

Do you actually hear more slurs against Asians than African Americans in Chicago area? The evolution of the stereotype around here (metro-NY) is kind of funny. 40-50 yrs ago, the Chinese were characterized as loud, insensitive, clannish. Nowadays the slam is still 'clannish', but the image leans more toward high-intelligence academic-prize-winning nerds.

Just looked up the old slur 'wop' for the first time... interesting! The word derives from Italian slang [for 'ruffian' or 'pimp']& was actually brought here-- to Chicago-- by immigrants from an Italian region whose mob used the slang word as its moniker.

So, no truth to meaning "WithOut Papers?"

Which culture gets slurred the most? Liberals!

Oh, I haven't thought of "wop" in a long time.

I suppose in Chicago, Hispanics (Latinos? Never sure what to call them), African-Americans and Asians are subjects of slurs the most. Maybe not the words, but just assumptions about things (which I intentionally won't be specific on).

no truth to meaning "WithOut Papers?"

A folk etymology at its best.

Above on February 26th, I posted about our new dog, Shayna (what a character she has turned out to be!). Today we met some people from Germany who told us the name should be spelled "Schoene." So we spelled it wrong, I guess, though it's probably best since it's phonetic. However, the ladies from Germany said we were pronouncing it wrong, too.

Isn't it a Yiddish word? Why would a German know more about the word and its pronunciation? There is a German equivalent, schön (f. schöne) which is no doubt related.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: arnie, June 18, 2012 08:52

In Yiddish it's שייןע, transliterated in YIVO as sheyne.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: goofy, June 18, 2012 06:07

Today we met some people from Germany who told us the name should be spelled "Schoene."

Don't you listen to them. As arnie and goofy point out (and as I originally posted above, link), your dog's name is a phonetic spelling of a Yiddish word. [Goofy, I'm afraid made a small mistake using the final form of the nun /n/ in the interior of the word.]

There was an older, pre-linguistic, view of Yiddish as badly pronounced German, but that does not hold up anymore. Yiddish is a Germanic language, comparable to English High German, Dutch, etc. This view was held by Jews and Gentiles alike. Famously, Kafka (a Yiddish speaker) called Yiddish a zshargon) 'jargon'.

Yeah, zmj talked about the Yiddish already, and I commented on it. So why did I say it again? And it should be שײנע - I know very little about the Hebrew abjad.

Interesting, z. Now I wish we had talked to these German ladies in more depth. I wonder if they consider Yiddish to be "badly pronounced German." They were from Germany and seemed pretty confident in their ideas. However, I had wondered why they were so confident when it was German they knew, and not Yiddish. One of the ladies was Swiss German, Shu tells me.

Perhaps I am suffering from political correctness, but I would have taken umbrage at these ladies' comments! They were either well-meaning but bossy and ignorant [i.e. yentas], or anti-Semitic.

Well, to be honest, they did seem a little bossy to me. They had an attitude of "We're right!" about them. They maybe weren't anti-Semitic, but I wondered if they were a bit anti-American.