Apparently in North Riverside ampersand is considered a word:

quote:

Team VIP removed the opposing Transparency & Accountability slate based on a little-known state law restricting word count: The law limits party titles to five words. In the eyes of Voters Improvement Party members on the ballot access panel, the name of the Transparency & Accountability in Politics Party contains six words. That is, factoring in the ampersand as a word, and "party" as part of the title, the Transparency & Accountability in Politics Party broke the five-word rule.

Of course, there was also the question as to whether "Party" should have counted, with the decisive factor being that it was capitalized. It's an interesting way for language to impact politics.
[edited typo]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh, April 02, 2013 20:10

While legal, it was blatantly political and unfair. The winning party had a majority on the panel making the decision so it was essentially a party vote.

Reminds me of the recall election last year where over 100,000 signatures were collected to put a question on the ballot but the Repbulican party tossed the petition since one line was in a font "too small" to qualify under the rules.

they should have used a "/"!

Well, of course, ampersand is a word (I mean just look at it in all its wordy glory), but & is a symbol.

This is why you have to be careful with your words. Watch it to the very end.

Funny, Proof!

I'd say that & isn't a word (you have to be careful here on WC.) because it contains no letters. I think he should have taken it to court.

I'd say an ampersand is most definitely a word. It's the symbol for "and", which must be one of the most commonly used words in the language. It's generally thought poor practice to use an ampersand in formal writing, although it's OK in signs, headlines, adverts and the like, where space or layout considerations may make it desirable.

You wouldn't write (except in texts and the like) It only cost one $; you'd put It only cost one dollar.

So...you consider symbols words? I have a hard time with that.

& is a word because it represents the unit of speech and. Unless word means "string of letters with a space on either side", which is fine, but under that definition some languages don't have words.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: goofy, April 06, 2013 05:20

What other symbols are considered words then?

Of course the capitalized Party could still save him!

If they are symbols for something they can be considered a word. In my earlier post I used $. which stands for "dollar". There's also the % sign, which means "per cent", and so on.

quote:

Originally posted by Kalleh:
What other symbols are considered words then?

For me all symbols represent words because a word is a unit of speech. But if you consider a word a unit of writing consisting of a series of letters, then symbols aren't words.

What other symbols are considered words then?

Well, words are symbols, too, (as goofy says), representing lexemes (or units of speech). I say all the letters in the alphabet are symbols. (You can say thing like "the most common letter in English is e" or "mind your ps and qs." Same for the digits.

But those are all letters. For example, $ or % or * are symbols to me, but not words. And I've not considered digits or numbers to be words.

I am not saying that I'm right, of course. However, I am wondering, when do we stop? There are a lot of symbols.

So if I write

"There are seven words in this sentence."

you would agree but if I write

"There are 7 words in this sentence."

you would disagree.

Would you agree with me or disagree if I said it without writing it down?

quote:

when do we stop? There are a lot of symbols

That depends on whether the symbol is standing in for a word or not. The "&" is the symbol for "and" and "$" means "dollar". They are words. However, the "(" [opening parenthesis] and ")" also appear on the keyboard but don't stand in for a word; they are punctation marks.

However, I am wondering, when do we stop? There are a lot of symbols.

I don't know that we have to. Why do we have to?

And, to arnie: maybe "(" does not stand for a word, but two, i.e., "opening parenthesis". So, is this sentence "the "," is not necessary in this case, but helps to disambiguate" malformed, but "the comma is not necessary in this case, but it helps to disambiguate" it's not?

ZM,

My point. When we refer to the symbol by name, either by using its symbol or spelling it, it counts as a word in my view. Thus both your examples are properly formed.

However, symbols used in the normal course of punctuation don't count. Similarly, if I'm dictating something, I don't expect to see the end result appear as "On the one hand comma we have conservatism semi colon on the other comma liberalism period" instead of "On the one hand, we have conservatism; on the other, liberalism."
That's like reading aloud stage directions.

quote:

I don't know that we have to. Why do we have to?

I suppose we don't. FWIW, Shu agrees with all of you. I may change my mind. Arnie, your explanation sounds reasonable.