arnie asked for anew game so I'll post one but with the caveat that while I think I know the origin and online sources indicate that I am right I don't necessarily trust online sources so if someone comes along later and says "hey, that's just folk etymology" don't blame me. I won't be offended.

The word is "snob".

answers in PMs please

Mine's in.

Mine too.

Wordmatic

Mine too.

Now, remember, as in the bluffing game, if you know the etymology, still make up one and send it to Bob. Then when Bob posts the hoax etymologies, along with the correct one, choose the correct one as you are smart!

I've been offline with computer problems for a couple of days but now that I'm back I already have six etymologies for "snob" plus one of my own and the real one.

Anyone for any more?

My what a lot of snobs there are.

I will post the game tomorrow so if anyone who hasn't entered wishes to do so, now's the time.

Remember a faux etymology is required for the word "snob".

Here are the suggested etymologies for "snob"

Guess away.

Knowledgeable contestants feel free to make intentionally wrong guesses to trick the rest of us or double-bluff us with a right guess.

Snob

1. Late C18. A contraction from the original "soi-disant nob" (mid C18), meaning "self-styled person of high social class", in turn from the (French): soi, "oneself" + disant, "saying" + (chiefly British slang) nob "person of high social standing".

2. Abbr. of snobluster or, var., snublister, ME for "one who looks askance," from the Latin sobustrus.

3. 1781, "a shoemaker, a shoemaker's apprentice," used in Cambridge University slang to mean “townsman”. Later came to mean people who consider others inferior.

4. c.1300, snoblen "to hold one's nose up, to toss up," probably related to its Dutch cognate snobbelen (which, however, is not recorded before late 15c.).

5. Middle English, now taken as a colloquial abbreviation of the French snobisme, but originally a form of snub, dative and accusative of the third person plural pronoun.

6. A corruption of the Middle English snubb (to ignore).

7. Relatively recent colloquialism, deriving from 19th-c. American (Philadelphia) phrase, "That's Nob Hill for you," shortened to "'S Nob Hill"

8. Originally a low-class person, derived from the Welsh term for a ship's belaying pin, thus one with connections, then one disdainful of inferiors.

9. A mocking derivative of “he’s noble” first recorded in the mid-eighteenth century.

I'll take number three,

although 1-2 look good as well as 4-9.

I didn't like the cobbled-together sound of #3, the Nob Hill references seem too numerous, and I have no idea what a ship's belaying pin might be - IF there is such a thing, despite #8's appeal, so I'll guess it's #2.

4

4

I'll plump for 3.

I'll go with 6.

Wordmatic

#2

Anybody else want to try a guess?

I like #1 - it puts you all below me

I’m going to be away visiting Tianshui for the next few days so here are the answers.

1. Late C18. A contraction from the original "soi-disant nob" (mid C18), meaning "self-styled person of high social class", in turn from the (French): soi, "oneself" + disant, "saying" + (chiefly British slang) nob "person of high social standing".

Provide by arnie
Guessed by bethree5

2. Abbr. of snobluster or, var., snublister, ME for "one who looks askance," from the Latin sobustrus.

Provide by wordmatic
Guessed by Kalleh, Geoff

3. 1781, "a shoemaker, a shoemaker's apprentice," used in Cambridge University slang to mean “townsman”. Later came to mean people who consider others inferior.

Provide by the real definition
Guessed by arnie, Proofreader

4. c.1300, snoblen "to hold one's nose up, to toss up," probably related to its Dutch cognate snobbelen (which, however, is not recorded before late 15c.).

Provide by Kalleh
Guessed by goofy, tinman


5. Middle English, now taken as a colloquial abbreviation of the French snobisme, but originally a form of snub, dative and accusative of the third person plural pronoun.

Provide by bethree5
Guessed by no one


6. A corruption of the Middle English snubb (to ignore).

Provide by Proofreader
Guessed by wordmatic


7. Relatively recent colloquialism, deriving from 19th-c. American (Philadelphia) phrase, "That's Nob Hill for you," shortened to "'S Nob Hill"

Provide by bethree5
Guessed by no one


8. Originally a low-class person, derived from the Welsh term for a ship's belaying pin, thus one with connections, then one disdainful of inferiors.

Provide by Geoff
Guessed by no one


9. A mocking derivative of “he’s noble” first recorded in the mid-eighteenth century.


Provide by me
Guessed by no one

I suspect collusion between goofy and tinman in an effort to misdirect you all.


As I said at the outset, definition 3 is one I’ve heard before and seems to be borne out by internet sources. I am happy to be corrected if this is not the correct answer though

Interesting--thanks Bob. I guess that's from days when the shoemaker held the most genteel position in the community. Rough times.

WM

According to the OED it meant "A person belonging to the ordinary or lower social class; one having no pretensions to rank or gentility", then came to mean "A person who despises those whom he or she considers to be inferior in rank, attainment, or taste" about 50 years later.

The big question is, what did it mean before it meant "shoemaker"?

quote:

The big question is, what did it mean before it meant "shoemaker"?
Posts: 1464

Someone who had a job "at last"?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: <Proofreader>,

There goes arnie again...the big winner! Congrats!

quote:

Originally posted by Proofreader:

Someone who had a job "at last"?

He ended up as a heel and his wife ended up as a vamp.

When he died he didn't get into Heaven...lost sole.

Students at Cambridge University lived quite apart from the people of the town. They spent most of their time in college, dining in their halls. They didn't get on too well with their neighbours; there were regular street battles between "town and gown". I've no idea why they picked on shoemakers as the epitome of townspeople or why they called them "snobs". There are plenty of examples of slang words coined by students, and I'd guess that "snob" is one of them, now lost in its original sense.

But "snob" wasn't coined by students, apparently. It was used by students to mean "Any one not a gownsman; a townsman", but its "shoemaker" meaning was not used by students.

Yes, that's true. I see the Online Etymology Dictionary gives the origin of the "shoemaker" meaning as unknown.

I'm sure there's an explanation in the etymology, though I'm not sure how to look it up, but have you noticed or wondered about why so many words having to do with noses, or the tilt or the looking down of same, start with "sn?" Just for starters, there are snob, snub, snoot, snide, snout, snot, schnoz, sniff, and sneeze. Any ideas why?

Wordmatic

The term is "phonestheme" or "sound symbolism". To quote something I wrote a while ago:

quote:

There are many Germanic words containing the phonestheme sn- and having to do with the nose. Pokorny connects snorken with Proto-Indo-European *sner- "expressive root of various verbs for making noises". This is the source of German schnarren "to buzz", and also snorkel from German schnarchen "to snore", snarl from Middle Low German snarren, sneer, and perhaps Norn, from Old Norse (as in "the whisperer"). And also Norwegian-Swedish snerka "to snort", Swedish snurka "to groan", Old Norse snǫrgla "to groan", Norwegian-Swedish snarva "to growl, bare one's teeth".

There is also *snu-, a form limited to Germanic languages, and imitative of words connected with the nose. This apparently gives us snot, snout, schnoz, snuffle, sniff, snip, snap, snub, and snatch. To make things even more confusing, snore, snort and sneeze are from PIE *pneu- "to breathe" - Old English fnora and fnēosan. Compare Old Norse fnȳsa "to pant, sniff, snort", Middle High German pfnusen "to pant, sniff, snort, sneeze".

Fnora and fnēosan apparently became snore and sneeze under the influence of the "sn-" phonestheme.

Interesting--thanks, Goofy.

Wordmatic

Swedish "snarva" seems cognate of English "Snarl."

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff:
Swedish "snarva" seems cognate of English "Snarl."

All the words in my first quoted paragraph there are related: schnarren, snarl, snorkel, snarva etc. That is the "snarl" meaning "growl". The "snarl" meaning "tangle, knot" would seem to be unrelated.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: goofy,

Who is next? This game is fun!