The new word is Karkhagne.

The sooner you send me your definitions the sooner I can post them. So get cracking.

Tinman

I've sent one by email... Tally ho!

Well, I've gotten very good and plausible definitions from Jerry, KHC, and Kalleh so far. I expect 8 or 10 more by tomorrow.

Tinman

I sent one by PM!

Just PMd mine.

Mine's in now, too.

But just one question. (And an old one at that.) This word looks to be a transliteration from a foreign language. When does it cease to be foreign and become "English?" If I posted "Wissenschaft" or "albondigas" or "gavaryu" (hoping that you didn't know them) wouldn't there be objections on the grounds that they are foreign words?

I'd say that the rule would have to be (for the purposes of this game anyway) that the proposer can cite an English dictionary in which it's appeared.

Hmm, well, Wissenschaft seems almost naturalized to me, but albondigas and говорю (govorju) are definitely foreign. Just the opinion of one though ...

Yes, if the word is in a dictionary, it is acceptable. "Wissenschaft" is in Onelook, and means "science?" "Albondigas" is in Onelook and means "meatballs?" "Govorju" is not in Onelook. If someone thinks we should change the rules after this game, let me know.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
Yes, if the word is in a dictionary, it is acceptable. "Wissenschaft" is in Onelook, and means "science?" "Albondigas" is in Onelook and means "meatballs?" "Govorju" is not in Onelook.

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Now we come to another edgy question: what is a dictionary, and can an Englilsh dictionary contain foreign words? Onelook.com is not a dictionary, but rather a list of dictionaries. "Wissenschaft" is cited - in a "multilingual dictionary," and identified as German. "Albondigas" is cited in a cooking dictionary...now whether that's a dictionary of English or not is really open to discussion!

(and "говорю" (govorju) means "I speak" in Russian, which I don't.)

Hmmm, good point, Hab. After this word is finished we'll have to make another rule!

BTW, we are talking about what makes a word a word in another thread...and we have debated this before. I swear, that is the underlying theme of this site!

Eight definitions have been submitted for Karkhagne. Any more? This is your last chance. I'll post them tomorrow afternoon or evening.

Tinman

After this word is finished we'll have to make another rule

For my part, I would suggest ("Proposed Rule") anything goes, as long as we're alerted to things other than one English word, and with leeway in cases of ambiguity...

(And don't ask which is the one English word. You know what I mean.)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: haberdasher,

Tinman, I've tried four times to send a daffynition via PM, but to no avail. The last attempt ended being sent to myself! I guess I'll just have to sit this one out! GRRRRRR!!!!

Here are the definitions.

Karkhagne

1. A village in southern Transylvania (pop 5280) and the spicy sausage produced there.. (see also Karkhagnewurst)

2. A mythical beast of the forest, who moves unseen to protect the trees and wildlife.

3. A window with a pointed arch. The style is associated with the Early English period of Gothic architecture, around the 13th century.

4. n. (from Old Germanic) An especially bad hangover, generally as a result of drinking inferior beer. "That ale was so bad it gave me a real karkhagne."

5. Medieval system of tithing in which a portion of the tithe owed by a vassal to the lord could instead be paid to the church.

6. The strip of hair on the head of a Huron Native American warrior. Similar in appearance to that of the Mohican.

7. A rarely seen, shy forest animal that eats section corners (American folklore).

8. The vegetation (lichens, moss, etc) which discolours the shaded and moist north side of churches and other old stone buildings (Icelandic)

9. A medieval, heretical sect of Christians located in and named after the present-day town of Carcagne in the Kingdom of Navarre.

10. The skirted cap worn by French Foreign Legionnaires.

Pick out the right definition and you'll receive a cyber pat on the back. I'll post the guesses early next week, and Kalleh will score them (she doesn't know this yet).

Tinman

I'll go with #7. It's just improbable enough, though I do like the sausage.

My guess is Number Two.

~~~ jerry

I'll go for 3.

As usual no idea.

8

I'll go for 2, because I like the idea (and so do my power animals).

Sorry for not sending a daffynition in time - terminal case of creative block!

Having a weakness for mythical beasts, I'll choose #2.

I love party games!

Going with 3 ...

Don't like any of 'em. Including mine.

I sense a preponderance of 2s and 3s. Just to make doubly sure I'll take both:

5 !

Number 2.

BTW, Caterwauller, would you please be next up? Here are the rules.

I say it's a window with a pointed arch through which a mythical creature wearing a Foreign Legionnaire's cap defenestrates heretical Christians.

Oh, heck, #3 seems most likely to be wrong, so I'll choose it.

I vote for #2..

YIKES! Do you all really think I'm ready for that kind of responsibility???

Yes, you are ready.. it builds character..

Then why have they let me play? Oh, yeah - I started the game... DUHHHH!

quote:

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Originally posted by KHC:
.. it builds character..

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Yes, see what a character Asa is!

Tinman

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalleh:
Here are the rules.

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Rules?

Tinman

quote:

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Originally posted by tinman:

quote:

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Originally posted by KHC:
.. it builds character..

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Yes, see what a character Asa is!

Tinman

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It's soooo disgusting having a very warped mind but still being Tinman's straight man!

If we weren't all characters we'd not have nearly so much fun playing.

quote:

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Originally posted by Asa Lovejoy:
It's soooo disgusting having a very warped mind but still being Tinman's straight man!

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That's payback for that last pm you sent me!

Tinman

quote:

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Originally posted by tinman:

quote:

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Originally posted by Asa Lovejoy:
It's soooo disgusting having a very warped mind but still being Tinman's straight man!

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That's payback for that last pm you sent me!

Tinman

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PM? You're pre-menstrual?

When will we get the answer to this one? I have a new word ready, as Kalleh ordered - lol.

CW

I was wondering that myself, Caterwauller. I have a good feeling about this one!

T-I-N-M-A-N...We are calling you....!

Perhaps he's stiffened up...?

Who has the little can of oil?

quote:

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Originally posted by KHC:
Perhaps he has stiffened up?

Who has the little can of oil?

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Oh, THAT kind of stiffened up!

Asa, get out of the gutter..

Aww - the gutter's not so bad, really.

'Tis if you're bowling.

(You didn't think I had the balls to say that, did you?!)

Well that brings up another question! Why are strikes good in bowling, and not good in baseball???

Who's bright idea was THAT???

And the winner is....

Jo! (pat, pat) Karkhagne - 7. A rarely seen, shy forest animal that eats section corners (American folklore).

Here are the breakdowns:

1. A village in southern Transylvania (pop 5280) and the spicy sausage produced there.. (see also Karkhagnewurst)
Submitted by Jerry Thomas

2. A mythical beast of the forest, who moves unseen to protect the trees and wildlife.
Submitted by KHC
Guessed by Jerry Thomas, Cat, Caterwauller, Kalleh, KHC

3. A window with a pointed arch. The style is associated with the Early English period of Gothic architecture, around the 13th century.
Submitted by Kalleh
Guessed by Arnie, jheem, Asa

Kalleh must be in hog heaven (just a phrase, Kalleh)! She submitted the definition that fooled Arnie!

4. n. (from Old Germanic) An especially bad hangover, generally as a result of drinking inferior beer. "That ale was so bad it gave me a real karkhagne."
Submitted by Jo

5. Medieval system of tithing in which a portion of the tithe owed by a vassal to the lord could instead be paid to the church.
Submitted by Bob Hale
Guessed by Haberdasher

6. The strip of hair on the head of a Huron Native American warrior. Similar in appearance to that of the Mohican.
Submitted by Arnie

7. A rarely seen, shy forest animal that eats section corners (American folklore).
Correct answer. Guessed by Jo

8. The vegetation (lichens, moss, etc) which discolours the shaded and moist north side of churches and other old stone buildings (Icelandic)
Submitted by haberdasher
Guessed by Bob Hale

9. A medieval, heretical sect of Christians located in and named after the present-day town of Carcagne in the Kingdom of Navarre.
Submitted by jheem

10. The skirted cap worn by French Foreign Legionnaires.
Submitted by Asa Lovejoy

Kalleh, you get to score.
Caterwauller, you're up!

Tinman

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tinman,

I think 2 and 7 are very similar..

I must admit to a childhood addiction to anything about Paul Bunyan, which is where I first came across the legend of the Karkenhagne.

quote:

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Originally posted by KHC:
I think 2 and 7 are very similar..

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Yes, they are. Both definitions describe shy forest animals. The difference lies in the end of the definitions: "... who moves unseen to protect the trees and wildlife." vs. "... that eats section corners." These may very well describe two attributes of the same mythological animal.

As I understand the rules, Jo gets 2 points for guessing the correct answer. Since #2 and #7 are so close to each other and may, in fact, be describing the same animal, I propose that those who guessed #2 receive 1 point. It would be all right with me if they got full credit.

Kalleh, however, cannot decide to do this, since she was one of the ones who guessed #2. Sorry, Kalleh, conflict of interest. So, who should make the decision?

I could have prevented this by invoking Rule 4 and asking KHC to revise her definition. But this would have tipped her off to the correct definition. Perhaps I should have.

I disagree with Rule 7 which says if you get no points for guessing the definition you submitted, even if it's right. This stems from Rule 3, which says you cannot submit a definition you know to be the correct one. What if you think you know the word, but aren't sure? Why shouldn't you be able to both submit it and guess it? This rule seems inherently unfair.

I don't agree with Rule 9. If you come up with a definition and want to use the internet or a dictionary or any other source to refine it, why not? The assertion is that this could lead to cheating. Of course it could. There is nothing to keep anyone from cheating in this game, except the honor system. The honor system should keep you from looking up the word. If you are using a dictionary or the internet to refine your definition and you inadvertantly come across the word, the honor system should cause you to disqualify yourself from guessing. And, I feel quite strongly, the honour system would, too.

Rule 10 is listed as the most important rule: Have fun! I agree with that. I don't care about the points. It's the cameraderie and knowledge that's shared that's important to me.

There has been some discussion about the criteria for listing a word. Some say it must be in a dictionary. What dictionary? Besides, since Arnie knows every word that ever appeared in any dictionary, I would never be able to fool him if I had that restriction! There are many words that are not in any dictionary that I know of. My proposal is that the word should be verifiable, and the best way to do that is to pick a word that is listed somewhere on the internet. I propose that a link to the word be included in the final results.

Back to Karkhagne. Should those who guessed #2 get 1 point for partial credit, 2 points for full credit, or no points for "close, but no cigar"?

Tinman

Edited to correct some spelling errors.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tinman,

quote:

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Originally posted by jo:
I must admit to a childhood addiction to anything about Paul Bunyan, which is where I first came across the legend of the Karkenhagne.

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Is Karkenhagne in any of the Paul Bunyan books? I've never run across it. Karkhagne, as far as I know, came from Ed Woods imagination. The only place I've ever read about it is in the article I linked to. But Ed may have heard it from somewhere else. He may have added the part about eating section corners because foresters spend many hours looking for lost section corners. If either you or KHC (or anyone else) knows more of the legend than what's in the article, please let me know.

Tinman

Tinman, as you may remember, I was the one who began this game, so I feel that I should have a say regarding this #2/#7 similarity. If I were still the Grand Poobah of this game, I'd give 1/2 credit for those who guessed #2