How could it depend on the sentence

Here's an interesting article that discusses stress patterns in compounds and phrases. This one, too. And didn't ice-cream used to be iced cream?

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How could it depend on the sentence

Dale, it often depends on the context which word you stress in a sentence, and Zmj's cites support that. Surely in this famous saying even the "cream" stressers (me!) would stress "ice": I scream, you scream, we all scream, for ice cream!" Yet, in this sentence, I would naturally stress "cream": "I want a hot fudge ice cream sundae with whipped cream and a cherry on top!" (What do you think is on my mind? )

Zmj, thanks a lot for those sources. I would love to post them on OEDILF, but of course it goes against everything they say there about stresses, which is that there are set stresses and that's that. For example, I really do tend to stress "cream" with "ice cream," but that's just plain incorrect, according to some workshoppers (not all). In fact, I argued a bit (a bad idea if you want your limericks approved!), and posted this pretty famous limerick:

There's a girl up in Ann Arbor Michigan,
To meet her I never would wish again.
She'd eat up ice cream
'Til with colic she'd scream;
Then she'd order another big dish again!

Here was what the approval editor (the person who has the final say as to the approval of your limericks) said: "Standards are frequently lower outside of OEDILF. Some of the lims that I've seen win contests were appalling."


Interestingly, the first linguistics article that Zmj posted spoke specifically of "ice cream" having variable stresses.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh,

k: Good one

But it is always possible to construct a sentence placing the stress on the selected word

Therefore all contributors should have voted for "Depends on the sentence", any other choice being superfluous

This message has been edited. Last edited by: dalehileman,

What's happening in the case of blackbird ~ black bird is that they are two different terms: the former a type of bird and the latter a bird that is black.

1. Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie.

2. The mynah bird is a black bird.

That's what might be happening with ice cream, or it may just be a regionalism.

[Corrected typo.]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd,

To the waitress: "I'll have a dish of vanilla ice CREAM, please."

To myself: "A dish of ICE cream would taste good about now."

To my guest: "Would you like some ice cream?" (no emphasis on either)

Depends on the sentence, and might vary from time to time also.

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Therefore all contributors should have voted for "Depends on the sentence", any other choice being superfluous

No, I don't think so. Unless there is some odd sentence (like the "I scream" one), I tend to stress "cream," which indeed is the selection I chose.

I am dying to post a poll with our updated software!

k: That's what I thought I was trying to say, maybe not too clearly, that you can always manufacture a sentence that places the stress where you want it

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k: That's what I thought I was trying to say, maybe not too clearly, that you can always manufacture a sentence that places the stress where you want it

We limerick writers do it all the time - although there are some on OEDILF who get very scratchy about "missplaced" stress. But stress is not a fixed or given item; stress is part of speech and an important device for changing meaning.

k: But if you allow the instance cited in your example, then all replies except "Depends on sentence" are incorrect. On the other hand, if you don't allow it, then this choice should not have appeared in the poll

Thus your reply to my objection constitutes a polyfactoid (:>

PS Interesting to note that the little yellow face was not inserted by me but by Bill Gates, who because he doesn't trust our judgment, rearranges things sometimes, as anyone knows who has used Google Advanced Search

Dale, perhaps I shouldn't have had the selection that says "depends on the sentence" then. At the time it made sense because, for me, sometimes it completely depends on the sentence, and I would have chosen that selection. However, other times, such as for my pronunciation of "ice cream," I normally stress the "cream" so that choice seemed most correct. However, while that selection worked for me, I see that it didn't for you.

As for Bill Gates, I know someone who is working for his foundation. He is really making a difference in the world. So...I will forgive the rearrangements.

k: I was mainly just kidding in hopes of riling up the prescriptivists

I use "Bill Gates" as a sort of adverse symbol for everything wrong in the software world. Actually I'm envious of his success

But thanks for being forgiving

Well, Dale, in all fairness, I used to rip Bill Gates, too. I have always loved Apple, and I had hated the way Gates' people had stolen their idea for windows and then had locked Apple out of all their business software. However, after seeing all the good Bill Gates does around the world, I have softened some toward him.