Dwarf tossing is banned in Canada, but not in the UK and the US.

England beat Australia 2-0 in the last world series. At least we can win at something.

How awful! Zmj, it is banned in some states, though not in the whole country.

Arnie, the dwarf tossing world series? Or am I being gullible again?

I see nothing inherently wrong with dwarf tossing, as long as it is consensual.

I suppose you have a point, Sean. Yet, it seems inherently wrong to me...but I can't explain how.

Philosophy Talk discussed prostitution on their Jan 20 2006 show; dwarf tossing and its legality/morality figured in the discussion. Apparently, Z., it's banned in some states.

Well, I am having trouble finding it, neveu. The prostitution show that I found was June 20, 2006, but I couldn't find a reference in it to dwarf tossing. Is that not the show, or if it is, was that discussion in a link?

As z's Wikipedia site said, it was banned in France not because it was abusive, but it was necessary to protect the public order. In that case, the dwarf himself actually fought against the ban, as he said it meant he could no longer earn a living.

I suppose I have to agree with Sean then, as hard as it is.

There was a time when anyone deviating greatly from the norm could only earn money by being on a sideshow freak gallery or some similar exploitation. Sending the message to young dwarves that they need to resort to this sort of public humiliation in order to earn money, even if the message is sent by a dwarf, is wrong. I have two nephews and a niece who are dwarves (it runs in our family), and it is not a message I ever want them to hear or believe. There are many things that are potentially consensual that are still wrong.

quote:

The prostitution show that I found was June 20, 2006, but I couldn't find a reference in it to dwarf tossing.

Their guest mentions it on the show; she uses it in her class as a point of comparison.

Oh, I see, Neveu. I hadn't listened; I just read the links.

Jo, I think you've articulated my hesitancy with this kind of thing. It just doesn't sit right with me.

Is there anything wrong with midget tossing? Or are we only being "PC" with regard to dwarfs?

There are countries where racing while carrying one's wife/girlfriend is a big sport. Any problem with that?

Cultural traditions are really hard to criticize, I suppose. Still, I understand what Jo is saying.

Somehow I just can't equate carrying one's spouse in a race with tossing a little person. The two aren't similar in my mind at all. I wouldn't be bothered by my niece being carried by her husband in a race, but if he ever tosses her...

Spouse-tossing: that's something I'd pay to watch.

Jo, you and I are on the same wavelength with this one. I agree.

I suppose it is very similar to prostitution in that one person is (whether they consent or not) being exploited by another person to earn money. How do you all feel about prostitution, then? All moral objections aside, I keep thinking that if the girls are going to be having sex with all kinds of men/boys anyway, they might as well get paid for it . . . but the pimp system ticks me off. Mind you, I can also easily argue that prostitution should remain illegal for all kinds of reasons. Also, I've heard the arguement that these girls couldn't earn nearly as much money with a "regular" job. I imagine that is probably true. Kids involved in drug trafficking could never earn the same kind of money legitimately, either. I've seen children as young as 8 with more money than I make in a month from acting as the lookout a few times. Is it exploitation or entrepreneurship?

I agree with Jo and Kalleh that the implication is that little people couldn't earn money any other way - it's appalling. It is also appalling that young kids are being pulled into illegal activities that will put their lives at risk, and that young women can make so much money from having sex with men they otherwise would ignore.

Exploitation, In a word. A close member of my family was a prostitute for years. I am happy to say that she is now clean, sober, and happy to be off the streets and in her own home. Yes, she made a lot of money. And she is now spending some of that in therapy trying to deal with the post traumatic shock disorder. She has nightmares, and sometimes if a man speaks to her on the street she goes into full blown flash back without any warning. She is also in therapy to deal with serious self-esteem issues.

I am not one in favor of legislation as a form of moral education, nor do I like legal/governmental protectionism. But I willingly make exceptions to my potestations in the case of prostitution and child abuse in any form. Make no mistake, drug trafficking that uses children in any capacity is abuse, no matter how much they pay the kid. And prostitution is exploitation.

WOW - My soap box button really got pushed.

Omigod, I can't believe that anyone intelligent enough to be posting on Wordcraft could seriously be defending the low-life bar-entertainment known as dwarf tossing as OK, as long as the little person consents! This is a revolting, exploitative, objectifying, pea-brained, offensive practice, period.

Aside from that, am I missing something totally obvious? Why is this thread called "squirrel dancing," and is this just a group trolling exercise by the men to get the women all up in arms?

Bah, humbug!

Wordmatic

quote:

I suppose it is very similar to prostitution in that one person is (whether they consent or not) being exploited by another person to earn money.

Any job that forces a person to work at it against his or her will is exploitation or even slavery. Prostitution is essentially, to my mind, no better and no worse than any other employment in that respect - although there is one thing that makes it so.

In most countries prostitution is illegal (or, as in the case of England, not illegal but everything connected with it - soliciting, running a brothel, procuring - is). Once you make anything illegal then crooks move in to meet the need. Just take a look at the history of Prohibition for a remarkable example of a stupid piece of legislation to make something illegal.

Prostitutes, working in a illegal trade, have no protection of the law and are frequently exploited by crooks and customers. Their working conditions often vary from poor to terrible and most work in extreme danger (as the recent spate of killings in England demonstrate)

In countries, like the Netherlands, where the trade is legalised and properly controlled, prostitutes work in well-run areas, afforded the protection of the police, and are able to run their businesses in a similar manner to other self-employed persons. Furthermore, by having proper areas and premises from which to work, they do not offend local residents as is so often the case in uncontrolled red-light districts.

But even in England not all prostitutes do the job because they are forced into it by circumstances outside their control; for many it is a career choice and there are some very wealthy ex-prostitutes who have retired at an early age, having invested their considerable earnings wisely.

The familiar cliché of a young girl, plying her trade on a dingy street corner simply to earn enough to pay her drug dealer and pimp, while true in part, is far from being the whole truth.

Legalise prositution and you can control and regulate it; make it illegal and the crooks move in.

Omigod, I can't believe that anyone intelligent enough to be posting on Wordcraft could seriously be defending the low-life bar-entertainment known as dwarf tossing as OK

For the record, I was not defending anything. I just found it interesting that some countries, and evidently States in the USA, had banned it and some hadn't.

Aside from that, am I missing something totally obvious? Why is this thread called "squirrel dancing,"

I called it that because of a scene in a Simpsons episode (9F22, Cape Feare) where Police Chief Wiggum finds a strange law on the books and exclaims: "It's also illegal to put squirrels down your pants for the purposes of gambling." Do you find something morally reprehensible with squirrel dancing?

and is this just a group trolling exercise by the men to get the women all up in arms?[

It wasn't on my part. I'll let the others speak for themselves.

Bah, humbug!

It's been nice [sic] dialogging [sic] with you, too.

quote:

Do you find something morally reprehensible with squirrel dancing?

Nope. Just thought the reference was probably the flashing neon clue that the whole thing was a joke and you were just trying to start something. For the record, I didn't say you, personally, were defending the practice of dwarf tossing, but others who chimed in seemed to be. I'll not name names.

quote:

...Simpsons...

Omigod, I can't believe anybody intelligent enough to post on Wordcraft, etc., etc., etc.
(Actually, I enjoy The Simpsons, but only in moderation--but then, I never said I was intelligent enough to post on Wordcraft.)

I'll bet the states where little person tossing is banned are the same ones with sensible gun control laws.

Word-nottryingtostartanything-matic

Philosophy Talk

I listened to the program in question, neveu, and found it interesting. I've always loved the show's motto: "The program that questions everything ... except your intelligence."

[Edited for typo.]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd,

To be sung to the tune of the old Eddie Arnold song, "Make the World Go Away:"

Make the squirrels go away,

Get 'em outa my underwear

Say or do whatever may ay ay ay,

Make those squirrels go away!

Having them down by my tender bits

Makes me twitchy, that's for sure,

If they think that I'm a restaurant,

My behaviour will be poor!

Make the squirrels go away,

Get 'em outa my underwear,

Say or do what it will take, I pray,

Make those damned squrrels GO AWAY!!!

Well, in all fairness, Wordmatic, while I agree with Jo about dwarf tossing, I can also see the point that if done with consenting adults, so what. After all, there are those who think that football players, boxers, etc., are being taken advantage of because they're putting their health on the line. It's not really a whole lot different, except of course for the money that the stars receive. And clearly, most of them aren't stars.

As for the Simpson's, Shu and I, not having reviewed it thoroughly, thought it lowgrade and therefore we wouldn't let our kids watch it. Then we saw a few episodes and completely changed our minds. It is quite clever, really, at least in this Wordcrafter's humble opinion.