A story in the papers in the last couple of days concerns a Muslim man who is trying to sue the Tesco supermarket chain. It seems that he got a job as a fork lift truck driver but objected to having to carry alcohol on it and requested a transfer to other duties. Tesco pointed out that all duties in the shop would probably involve contact to a similar degree because they sell alcohol. (Duh!)
He claims that this amounts to victimisation and harassment.

The bit that Richard will love is that according to the Tesco company lawyer he had suggested at one point that it would be OK for him to handle Budweiser.

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The bit that Richard will love is that according to the Tesco company lawyer he had suggested at one point that it would be OK for him to handle Budweiser.

Amusing though that undoubtedly is, I can't quite see what the plaintiff was getting at. Foul though it is, and scarcely even deserving the name beer, it is still an alcoholic drink of about 5% alcohol by volume.

I am sure he was just kidding. Budweiser...chemical fizz...I am sure you can understand that, Richard.

In the U.S. often we have grocery store clerks who are younger than 21. In that situation, when the customer buys alcohol, the clerk must call on someone over 21 to scan the alcohol.

[Edited to remove my misunderstanding of the use of pronouns in Bob's last sentence.]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh,

I was also amused that he said that he'd never been in a Tesco store before getting the job, so he didn't realise they sold alcohol. He did admit having shopped in competitors like Sainsbury's and he'd seen booze on sale there. If I were going to work for somebody, I'd do a little research first, surely?

Kalleh: It seems to me that the statement was from the Defendant, not the Plaintiff.

One article I read on this contains this sentence:

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Another supervisor, Steve Watts, allegedly shouted at him and said "do not take the p***", while line manager Deb Ryan was accused of being aggressive towards him.

The Daily Mail's version was:

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Mr Ahmed also claimed his line manager was 'aggressive' towards him and another supervisor angrily told him: 'Do not take the p***.'

What's the word?

I also noticed that at the Daily Mail website, the reader comments were 102 to 1 against the plaintiff. The one favorable one misses the point:

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Good for him. The less alcohol ahuttled around this bleary, inebriated, and vomit covered country the better.

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Kalleh: It seems to me that the statement was from the Defendant, not the Plaintiff.

Valentine: Isn't that what I said? Wasn't it Richard who called him the Plaintiff? Here was Richard's post:

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Amusing though that undoubtedly is, I can't quite see what the plaintiff was getting at. Foul though it is, and scarcely even deserving the name beer, it is still an alcoholic drink of about 5% alcohol by volume.

Perhaps I am missing something?

[See my post of October 3rd. I am clearly wrong, and Richard and Valentine are correct.]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh,

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a Muslim man who is trying to sue the Tesco supermarket chain

The Muslim man seems to meet the definition of "plaintiff" to me.

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What's the word?

The phrase is "Don't take the piss". In other words, "Don't take the Mickey".

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I also noticed that at the Daily Mail website, the reader comments were 102 to 1 against the plaintiff. The one favorable one misses the point:

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Good for him. The less alcohol ahuttled around this bleary, inebriated, and vomit covered country the better.

Amazingly, considering that the Daily Mail is one of the most anti-alcohol papers we have, that so few of that journal's readers seem to support its stance.

Here was the comment I was referring to, regarding the plaintiff:

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The bit that Richard will love is that according to the Tesco company lawyer he had suggested at one point that it would be OK for him to handle Budweiser.

I thought the "he" in the quote was referring to the lawyer, who clearly is the plaintiff's lawyer. Apparently I got my threads mixed up...remember the "my mother she is good" thread down in the Linguistics 101? I guess I thought the sentence was "the Tesco company lawyer he had suggested..."

Now perhaps people will see in that Linguistics 101 thread why I was saying that particular construction is unclear.

[And I was so sure I was right!]

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according to the Tesco company lawyer he had suggested

I think it's clear enough from the context that "he" is the Muslim plaintiff.

I fully agree.

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according to the Tesco company lawyer he had suggested

Needs a comma after "lawyer."

In a similar situation, a Muslim girl working in the Midwest refused to scan packages of pork at her supermarket checkout some time ago. I don't know what the outcome was, but you would think someone with a prohibition against using or touching a product would avoid a job where such handling is necessary to the job.

And, as an aside but newsworthy, last night the local news reporter told of the man who "had been shot to death five times." He is either amazingly robust or else is part feline.

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The phrase is "Don't take the piss". In other words, "Don't take the Mickey".

I suspected that that was the word, but the phrase was meaningless to me.

But what does the new one mean? In US slang, Mickey refers to a Mickey Finn, which makes no sense here.

Kalleh: I meant to disagree with you. I understood the sentence all along to mean that the Muslim had said .... That is clear from the context. But I didn't even need to consult the context, because, like you and everyone I know, I was taught that "My Mother she" is wrong, even if grammatical. It didn't occur to me that "he" could have been a left-dislocation of "lawyer".

This is not a situation in which an alternative construction is common, so that the reader has to consult context to determine which is intended. I hope that it doesn't become so. Requiring the reader to consult context is bad writing, in most cases - unless it is intentionally done.

Proofreader: Had I written the sentence, I would have used two commas, or none.

Re shot to death. Amusing, but not newsworthy in the Man Bites Dog sense. Such solecisms are commonplace in our local news media.

An article on the British slang term "taking the piss" (link).

Thanks for the link, z, but I'm still confused. From there:

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The term sometimes refers to a form of mockery or a piss take in which the mocker exaggerates the other person's characteristics; pretending to take on his or her attitudes, etc., in order to make them look funny.

What's a "piss take", or is that just an error?
Also from there:

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In colloquial usage, 'taking the piss' is also used to refer to someone or something that makes a claim which is not in line with a recognised agreement

When the supervisor (allegedly) told the complainant not to "take the piss", what did he mean? I thought, even with the asterisks, that the meaning was "don't cop an attitude", but neither of the quoted meanings means that to me.

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I thought, even with the asterisks, that the meaning was "don't cop an attitude"

Yes, that's roughly what he was saying: "Don't come the old acid with me, Sunshine".

What's a "piss take", or is that just an error?

A dictionary entry on piss-take (link).

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Yes, that's roughly what he was saying: "Don't come the old acid with me, Sunshine".

You just defined a slang expression which we didn't understand with another even vaguer.

I think arnie's giving an example of the phrase rather than the definition (link).

Who was it who said something like:

Ah, the US and the UK, one people divided by an ocean and a common language?

a common language

"America and England are two nations divided by a common language." It has been attributed to both Shaw and Wilde.

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I think it's clear enough from the context that "he" is the Muslim plaintiff.

Well, arnie, clearly I didn't. Obviously I was wrong, and at least I admitted it.

However, I do think the use of pronouns was confusing. Or maybe I am just plain stupid.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh,

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"America and England are two nations divided by a common language." It has been attributed to both Shaw and Wilde.

In the "Canterville Ghost", Oscar Wilde said of the heroine, Mrs Otis, that she "...was an excellent example of the fact that we have really everything in common with America nowadays, except, of course, language..."

Getting back to the original subject, has Richard ever tried this new beer: Vergina?

I hope they are better at brewing than they are at placing dots on maps. Look at The Brewery/Exports on their site.

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Getting back to the original subject, has Richard ever tried this new beer: Vergina?

It's not sold in the UK, but looking at its description and the colour in its picture it looks like a pretty standard mock-pilsner to me. I.e. cold, fizzy and essentially tasteless.

I wrote a DD about my communication gaffe:

Higgledy Piggledy
Arnie, the Londoner,
Rightly concludes that the
Plaintiff is "he."

Kalleh, however, so
Characteristically,
Took it quite literally.
How can that be?!!!

Richard English, WordCrafter, we hear,
Was frustrated, lacking good cheer,
With a maiden on fire
He fulfilled his desire
By buying the Vergina Beer.

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Today, Macedonian Thrace Brewery S.A. continues to successfully export beer to the U.S.A., as well as to Australia, Cyprus, Italy, Spain, Poland and Albania.

I'm surprised at Poland, as they brew some decent beers, but not at the other destinations.

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I'm surprised at Poland, as they brew some decent beers, but not at the other destinations.

Australia now does brew a few drinkable beers, notably Cooper's.