I was watching a quiz show. People in it compete in pairs. In round one one of the pair has to give an answer and then, later in the round the other has to give an answer.

The question was

"Name a US State with a coastline."

One pair gave the answers "Mexico" and "Orlando".

And the jobs of this pair of intellectual giants?
Both were teachers.

(To be fair, one of the other contestants said "Detroit" but at least he didn't claim to be a teacher.)

Frankly I think that's shocking.

What did they teach? If it was geography that would be pretty dreadful, but if it was (say) maths I don't see why it should matter.

It wasn't geography (they said) but frankly anyone who thinks Mexico is a state (or Orlando for that matter) deserves whatever names the kids call him when he turns up in class on Monday!

Mexico IS a state, just not one of ours. And sifting the thought finer, Mexico is just one of the several states of Estados Unidos Mexicanos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico Oh, and it has a coastline or two!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Geoff,

They specifically asked for US states so I think your objection may be invalid.

Bob, part of my point is that there are TWO "United States" (US, in other words) in North America; one in which I live, and the United States of Mexico. We just don't recognize Mexico as such, but it's on their flag and their money.

Clearly the teachers should have known.

On the other hand, given a similar question to American teachers about England...they'd fail royally! Geographic knowledge is not one of an American's strong points.

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff:
Mexico IS a state, just not one of ours. And sifting the thought finer, Mexico is just one of the several states of Estados Unidos Mexicanos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico Oh, and it has a coastline or two!

Well I never realized that there was a state called Mexico inside the country of Mexico - and it's distinct from Mexico City as well. Confusing!

On the other hand, the state of Mexico doesn't appear to have a coastline, so even on the (unlikely) assumption that the contestant was in fact referring to that one, it wouldn't have been a correct answer.

Regarding Kalleh's point, it sometimes strikes me as odd that the British are expected to have a level of interest in the United States that we don't have in other countries. With a Presidential election coming up next year you can guarantee that the media will be covering the whole process in intimate detail, reporting on things like the New Hampshire primary to people who mostly neither know nor care where New Hampshire is. There's a media obsession with all things American that doesn't seem to extend to other parts of the world, even our European neighbours.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Guy Barry,

quote:

Originally posted by Kalleh:
Clearly the teachers should have known.

On the other hand, given a similar question to American teachers about England...they'd fail royally! Geographic knowledge is not one of an American's strong points.

But that wouldn't be an equivalent question.

An equivalent would be more like "Name European countries with a coastline." with the given answers being "Africa" and "Paris".
I'm British and would struggle to list all of our counties with a coastline - especially the Welsh or Scots ones.

I still think that NOT knowing that Mexico is a different country to the United States of America is unforgivable for a teacher - even if he teaches woodwork!

Frankly I'd have been ashamed of myself if I'd given either of those answers.

OK, US citizens, name one or two British shires or counties on the coast of the UK.

Seashire and Coastalshire

quote:

Originally posted by zmježd:
OK, US citizens, name one or two British shires or counties on the coast of the UK.

Do the Isles of Mann and Wight count? They've got LOTS of coastline! All kidding aside, you're right, Z. I can name British cities, but not counties on the coast. However, without looking anything up, I'll guess Northumberland and Dover.

The Isle of Wight and Northumberland are OK.

The Isle of Man isn't part of the UK; it's self-governing. Dover is on the coast, but it's a town, not a county.

OK, that proves Z's point! Ignorance reigns in the USA! Well, between my ears anyway...
I was also thinking Essex and Wessex, but then thought you have Wales in the way of Wessex. Guess I'd best go look at a map!

But as I said British counties aren't the equivalent of American states. I live here and probably couldn't answer the question. Our counties have nowhere near the importance of your states.

Try answering the question I posed as a closer equivalent. European countries with a coastline.

quote:

Originally posted by BobHale:


Try answering the question I posed as a closer equivalent. European countries with a coastline.

I would hope that would be pretty easy, but maybe I'm naive.

quote:

Regarding Kalleh's point, it sometimes strikes me as odd that the British are expected to have a level of interest in the United States that we don't have in other countries. With a Presidential election coming up next year you can guarantee that the media will be covering the whole process in intimate detail, reporting on things like the New Hampshire primary to people who mostly neither know nor care where New Hampshire is. There's a media obsession with all things American that doesn't seem to extend to other parts of the world, even our European neighbours.

Ahem! And there wasn't a media fiasco in the U.S. with the recent royal wedding? Quite similar.

quote:

I still think that NOT knowing that Mexico is a different country to the United States of America is unforgivable for a teacher - even if he teaches woodwork!

Frankly I'd have been ashamed of myself if I'd given either of those answers.

Bob, I agree with you completely. Frankly, I have been surprised at some of the replies here. "Unforgivable" is the perfect word for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff:
OK, that proves Z's point! Ignorance reigns in the USA! Well, between my ears anyway...

Not at all - in fact I'm quite impressed that you've heard of any English counties! If you asked me to name counties in any of the states of the US I'd be struggling. In fact I'm not even sure whether they all have counties.

EDIT: Just to show that the English are perfectly capable of extreme ignorance about their own geography, I invite you to read this notorious exchange from the reality show Big Brother, featuring the late unlamented Jade Goody. I swear it's for real.

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I was also thinking Essex and Wessex, but then thought you have Wales in the way of Wessex. Guess I'd best go look at a map!

Essex is OK, but Wessex isn't the name of an English county - it was one of the ancient Anglo-Saxon kingdoms. The name was used in the novels of Thomas Hardy, and there's a fringe "Wessex Regionalist" movement that wants to revive the ancient region, but there's no clear agreement about its boundaries.

Interestingly enough, though, the company that supplies my water is called "Wessex Water", and when Prince Edward married he was made "Earl of Wessex". Strange for a place that doesn't exist!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Guy Barry,

I blame the confusion about Wessex on Thomas Hardy who used it as the fictional setting (though based on reality) for most of his work.

Similarly, in years to come, I am certain that people will start believing in the fictional county of Midsomer.

When making comparisons between what you know about internal UK geography and what we know about internal US geography,you should also keep in mind that Texas on its own is more than twice the size of the whole of the UK; around five times the size of England.

Off the top of my head I can only name two American counties, both in Florida, Dade County and Osceola County.

I'm not sure why I know Dade county, though I suspect it's from TV but I know Osceola County because of an incident many years ago when a friend and I had all our money and credit cards (not to mention luggage) stolen in Florida. When we rang the police to report it my friend's initial question of
"Is that the police?"
was answered with a friendly and amused
"No sir, this is the Osceola County Sheriff's Department and I guess you must be English."

But as I said British counties aren't the equivalent of American states. I live here and probably couldn't answer the question. Our counties have nowhere near the importance of your states.

I suppose, but we are talking about the internal governmental divisions of a country. When I posed the question, I was thinking of Cornwall (also a duchy, but I think it's a county these days) and Kent (which is the only English county whose name has a Celtic etymology). Of the only other counties I know, Bedfordshire and Hartfordshire (probably misspelled, and these only because I knew a British WW2 vet who was in a regiment nicknamed the Dear Old Beds and harts)), are land-locked, and Yorkshire has some coastline, I think. Wasn't it a part of the Danelaw? Speaking of Anglo-Saxons kingdoms, are Norfolk and Suffolk counties or did they disappear? And from watching Dennis Potter on the TV, what county is the Forest of Dean in?

I'm pretty good about California counties, but quite spotty about other states in the Union. Isn't there a Cicero county in Illinois near Chicago? Something to do with Al Capone. Also, one state does not have counties, but parishes: Louisiana. I think one of them is Jefferson parish.

As for the sheriff and the police, sheriffs have jurisdiction in unincorporated parts of a county, and police in their respective cities, although as I type this I am reminded that there are California State Police, not to be confused with Highway Patrol or the BART Police. Too confusing.

Try answering the question I posed as a closer equivalent. European countries with a coastline.

I think that's too easy. I would suggest European countries without a coastline, which reminds me of a contemporary of Shakespeare who chastised the Bard for not knowing that Bohemia did not have a coastline.

You'd be surprised how many folks have heard of a place but have no idea where it is. In India or Malaysia, after telling somebody I was from California, he responded with something about Hollywood, and then asked me if California was in Europe. But, then, I have also been asked if Europeans (like me) had such fair skin because we drank champagne.

Alas, ignorance of geography and political boundaries is nothing new. Nor is ignorance of government and its various theories. To wit: http://www.newsweek.com/2011/0...how-dumb-are-we.html

I got six out of ten on the quiz, or arguably seven. My answer to "what was the United States' main concern during the Cold War" was "preventing a nuclear attack from the Soviet Union", rather than "communism" which was the answer given. Unless the government believed there was going to be a communist revolution in the United States, I think my answer makes more sense.

The other ones I didn't know were the authors of the Federalist Papers, the President during World War I and Susan B. Anthony. Not too bad for a foreigner.

Indeed not at all bad! I was able to name only one author of the Federalist Papers. I also concur with the communism business, it being a red herring, IMHO.

Guy, you're now prepared to come over here and straighten this lot out! Since my wife's in hospital as I type this, I hope it's soon! I can't afford free-market medicine.

quote:

Originally posted by zmježd:
When I posed the question, I was thinking of Cornwall (also a duchy, but I think it's a county these days) and Kent (which is the only English county whose name has a Celtic etymology).

Cornwall is generally considered an English county, although there are some who would have you believe that it isn't part of England at all but a separate Celtic nation (e.g. Mebyon Kernow). The "Duchy of Cornwall" is different from the county of Cornwall; it's the name given to the lands owned by the Duke of Cornwall (a.k.a. the Prince of Wales, or Prince Charles), from which he derives his income. They're in various locations across south-west England, not just Cornwall.

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Of the only other counties I know, Bedfordshire and Hartfordshire (probably misspelled...)

Hertfordshire, in fact (though pronounced as your spelling suggests).

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are land-locked, and Yorkshire has some coastline, I think.

Quite a lot of coastline in fact! It's no longer a single administrative unit but both North Yorkshire and the East Riding are on the coast.

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Speaking of Anglo-Saxons kingdoms, are Norfolk and Suffolk counties or did they disappear?

They're still very much counties, and also on the coast.

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And from watching Dennis Potter on the TV, what county is the Forest of Dean in?

It's in Gloucestershire, although it's separated from the rest of the county by the River Severn. At first glance it looks as though it ought to be in Wales.

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Isn't there a Cicero county in Illinois near Chicago?

Nope. Cicero is a village, but not a county.

Maybe it's just the midwest, but I don't think counties are all that big in the U.S. I'd never expect someone living in the U.S. to know counties off the top of his head (unless he's/she's a geography freak like my 2 brothers are), so I'd certainly not expect that from a non-U.S. person.

Whenever I speak on transition programs in other countries, I always have to provide context. For example, Scotland has a great program, but it's only the size of Connecticut. Similarly, Portugal has a good program, but it only has 58,000 nurses; the U.S. has 3.1 million. So the whole conversation here about Texas being more than twice the size of the UK and five times the size of England is interesting to me. I had no idea!