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On Monday the Culture Minister, Kim Howells, attacked violent computer games and films and what he called "blood spattered entertainment." I won't go into what I think of his views but I would like to comment on his use of the phrase "the pornography of violence" to describe the kind of video games that are poular today. Far too many people, especially people who feel that they have a political point to make, misuse the words pornography and obscenity. Usually it's people who are trying to stamp out pornography who refer to it incorrectly as obscenity. This quote is unusual as I think he means to use obscenity (which I'd disagree with anyway) and has instead used pornography. His views, my views and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all's views on whether these games are good or bad are irrelevent, They are not pornography unless they are intended to sexually arouse the person playing them. I'm sure there are people who get aroused by violence but then again there are people who get aroused by traffic cones, it doesn't make the violence or the traffic cones pornographic - it just makes the people a bit weird. Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum Read all about my travels around the world here. [This message was edited by BobHale on Wed Jan 15th, 2003 at 10:46.] | ||
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Re-reading that it occurred to me that there might be a substantial section of our little community that don't know who "Uncle Tom Cobbley" is. There's an English Folk SOng Called Widdecombe Fair. There are lots of different versions of the lyrics (one is reproduced below) but the chorus is nearly always the same. The list of names always ends in "Old Uncle Tom Cobbley and All" and this phrase is often used as a jocular alternative to "everyone". Widdecombe Fair "Tom Pearse, Tom Pearse, lend me your gray mare." All along, down along, out along, lee. "For I want for to go to Widdecombe Fair, Wi' Bill Brewer, Jan Stewer, Peter Gurney, Peter Davy, Dan'l Whidden, Harry Hawk, Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all." Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all. "And when shall I see again my gray mare?" All along, down along, out along, lee. "By Friday soon, or Saturday noon, Wi' Bill Brewer, Jan Stewer, Peter Gurney, Peter Davy, Dan'l Whidden, Harry Hawk, Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all." Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all. Then Friday came and Saturday noon, All along, down along, out along, lee. But Tom Pearse's old mare hath not trotted home. Wi' Bill Brewer, Jan Stewer, Peter Gurney, Peter Davy, Dan'l Whidden, Harry Hawk, Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all." Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all. So Tom Pearse he got up to the top of of the hill, All along, down along, out along, lee. And he seed his old mare down a-making her will, Wi' Bill Brewer, Jan Stewer, Peter Gurney, Peter Davy, Dan'l Whidden, Harry Hawk, Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all." Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all. So Tom Pearse's old mare her took sick and her died, All along, down along, out along, lee. And Tom he sat down on a stone, and he cried Wi' Bill Brewer, Jan Stewer, Peter Gurney, Peter Davy, Dan'l Whidden, Harry Hawk, Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all." Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all. But this isn't the end o' this shocking affair, All along, down along, out along, lee. Nor though they be dead, of the horrid career Wi' Bill Brewer, Jan Stewer, Peter Gurney, Peter Davy, Dan'l Whidden, Harry Hawk, Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all." Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all. When the wind whistles cold on the moor of a night, All along, down along, out along, lee. Tom Pearse's old mare doth appear, gashly white, Wi' Bill Brewer, Jan Stewer, Peter Gurney, Peter Davy, Dan'l Whidden, Harry Hawk, Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all." Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all. And all the night long he heard skirling and groans, All along, down along, out along, lee. From Tom Pearse's old mare in her rattling bones, Wi' Bill Brewer, Jan Stewer, Peter Gurney, Peter Davy, Dan'l Whidden, Harry Hawk, Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all." Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all. Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum Read all about my travels around the world here. | |||
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Interesting discussion, Bob. I had never heard of Tom Cobbley (is it 1 or 2 "b's"?). In another thread Wordnerd made an excellent post about obscene that may apply here. | |||
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quote: As with the words the spelling varies. I've even seen "Cobleigh". Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum Read all about my travels around the world here. | |||
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quote: It does. I'd completely forgotten that post even though it was fairly recent. That's exactly my point. Much as the moral crusaders would like to have it otherwise, the words pornography and obscenity are not synonyms. Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum Read all about my travels around the world here. | |||
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The Obscenity/Pornography distinction is an apt topic for this board and I definitely agree with B.H. on this point. Possibly a bit less relevant would be the subject of pornography itself. I have prided myself with being a feminist for most of my adult life. With most topics, pretty much everyone identifying with this title finds themselves in perfect agreement. Equal pay for equal work? A woman's right to choose? Equal legal rights for men and women? Pretty much 100% agreement right on down the line. A distinct difference, however, is the topic of pornography, a subject that splits us pretty much right down the middle. Some say it subjugates and enslaves women, others say it's an extension of a woman's right to control her own body. Some say that it should all be gathered up and burned while others defend it as a Freedom of Speech issue. Some see it as disgraceful while others freely admit to enjoying it. I believe that words (and, by extension, photographs, movies, and other forms of art, but mostly words) have the ability to move us. Without words, we'd be reduced to a global tribe of grunting Neanderthals. Yet it's also true that words can be ignorant, hurtful, or any of a dozen other negative adjectives. I think that those who wish to ban pornography or obscenity or blasphemy etc etc could do more for their cause by promoting the good instead of attacking what they see as the bad. The second-rate will fall by the wayside without any help from these crusaders and the first-rate is invincible to their attacks. "Lolita" will be with us forever while "Truck Stop Bimbos, Vol. 23" will... No, come to think of it, "Truck Stop Bimbos" will probably be with us forever as well but that's not necessarily a bad thing. What's important is that each of us has the right to decide for ourselves. You don't like a movie? Don't go see it! Picket the place and I'm just that more likely to buy a ticket if for no other reason just to piss you off. Maybe you could make the distinction between pornography (bad) and eroticism (good) (sometimes very good) but that's another discussion. Maybe someone could bring up a link to the lyrics to Tom Lehrer's song "Smut"? One last note on Obscenity. Warren Beatty performs a fantastic monolog on this subject in his film "Bulworth" which totally hits the nail on the head as to what that word really means. I firmly believe that this is one of the greatest films ever made about the wart-filled American political system and I can't recommend it highly enough. If you haven't seen it, though, I do need to warn you that the language is a bit rough at times although it is precisely because of this aspect that the point he makes is driven home so completely. | |||
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Excellent analysis, CJ, and I agree with it. I probably am somewhat of a "prude" and have walked out of movies that had been more explicit than I had anticipated. However, I never begrudged the others their fun. Where I think problems arise is with pornography on the internet. Kids have unbridled access to the internet these days, and it is hard to keep track of what they are doing. I realize it is the parent's responsibility; yet, I feel there is a community responsibility, too. I don't know what the answer is. The distinction between "pornography" and "obscene" is a good one, and I think wordnerd is accurate. | |||
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